Which is better? Caro-Kann or Sicillian?

For the record, I have played the Philidor.

The Hanham variation is very strong.

The Hanham variation is one of the Best Philidor variations and it isn’t passive.

Most people who call the Philidor Passive are referring to the Exchange Variation.

The Exchange Variation trades off Black furthest center pawn which causes Black to have lack of space.

Top Players still play the Hanham Variation, but they use the Pirc move order to prevent 4.Bc4 lines.

The 4.Bc4 line is often played in main Philidor move order and the positions can become extremely complicated.

Obviously, you peeps are having different conversation entirely and I don’t know why you’re going to drag Philidor into this conversation.

There is nothing wrong with the Philidor.

I probably should have been more clear in specifying the move order I was referring to when commenting on the Hanham. Mentally I was thinking the line 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 Nd7 4. Bc4, but I never dreamed my comment would raise such a hullabaloo.

But yes you're right. 1. e4 d6 2. d4 Nf6 3. Nc3 e5 and black gets a better deal than in the above line.

One thing I'd ask (and if you say no that's fine and you're perfectly justified and that is convention), but is there maybe a relevant sense in which 1. e4 d6 2. d4 Nf6 3. Nc3 e5 4. Nf3 Nd7 could be reasoned to not be the Philidor but in fact a line of the Pirc? Convention says otherwise and says we've transposed into the Philidor, but given that 4. Nc3 makes far less sense after 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 Nd7 than 4. Nf3 does after 1. e4 d6 2. d4 Nf6 3. Nc3 e5 I can't help but associate the position with the PIrc, and not the Philidor.

@Post #88

To fully answer your question, I would have to explain a lot of Philidor stuff to set the stage.

I don’t really have time and this thread is certainly not the place for me to write a mile long post about the Philidor on a Caro Kan/ Sicilian thread.

The Short 5 min answer to your question is:

No, The positions are mainly Philidor positions.

It’s hard to consider them Philidor positions if you’re not a Philidor player yourself.

Philidor players are trying to manipulate their opponents into getting into their set up.

They are doing Move Order Tricks.

I also think Sicillian is better!

As an aspiring chess artist the question is sort of interesting. The first instinct is to say the sicilian is better since in the main line open sicilian there is probably more scope to create something beautiful than in the caro Kann,,,,particularly with black, There are probably some games where black won in a beautiful way with the black side of the caro Kann.....but probably many more with the black side of the sicilian. On the other hand creating a beautiful game out of the black side of the caro Kann may be an achievement a chess artist would be more proud of since it would be more unexpected.

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