Which variation of QGD to play as black?

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Fromper

I'm rated around 1700 in slow OTB tournaments (USCF). When I was a beginner, years ago, I used to answer 1. d4 with d5 and just improvise, playing the Queen's Gambit Declined if my opponent played c4, but I never knew what I was doing or understood the positions.

 

So I decided to change my repertoire, and tried a bunch of oddball responses to 1. d4 instead. Playing the Englund Gambit (1. d4 e5) got me from 1300 to 1500 before I realized it wasn't sound enough against higher level opponents. After trying a couple of other things, I settled on the Dutch as my main response, which helped me win some games against some higher rated opponents, and helped me get over 1700. But I feel like my Dutch games are always either extremely good or extremely bad for me right out of the opening - there's no in between games where the opening just leads to a playable position for both sides, and the rest of the game decides the result. I've done fairly well with the Dutch, but I don't think I'll ever be truly comfortable playing it.

 

And I feel like I've missed something in my chess education by playing weird openings instead of mainstream stuff. There's a reason it's mainstream, and if I want to continue to improve and become a stronger player, I feel like I need to play and understand what the masters play. So I've decided I'm going to switch from the Dutch to the Queen's Gambit Declined as my main response to 1. d4. I'll keep playing the Dutch against 1. c4 and 1. Nf3, just to avoid having to learn too much new stuff at once. And no, I'm not looking for recommendations to play mainstream Nf6 openings instead of the QGD. That may come later, but for now, I've decided to try the QGD.

 

I have the book "Starting Out: Queen's Gambit Declined" by GM Neil McDonald, which gives an intro to the various lines of the QGD (Tarkatower, Lasker, Cambridge Springs, etc). Which do you think would be best variation for me to start with?

 

And even if I pick one variation I want to play, what are the popular sidelines that white can play to prevent me from getting to my chosen variation? I know there's all sorts of d4 without c4 stuff I'll need to prepare for (Colle, London, etc), too, but are there any sidelines after 2. c4? I haven't played enough double queen's pawn openings in my life to really know what the options are.

 

Frostadro

I like the Tartakower variation of the QGD. The sidelines I've encountered most often in the QGD are the exchange variation, Catalan, and the Bf4 lines. I've played normal developing moves against the London and Colle systems, usually with a quick c5 break.

m_n0

Tartakower against Bg5, ...b6 against Bf4, and the system with ...Nh5 against the Exchange Variation.

Fromper

Thanks for the responses.

 

At my level, I know the London and Colle are still likely to come up almost as often as the QGD, so I'll want to be at least a little prepared. Although I play the Classical Dutch, I know that the Stonewall Dutch is great against the Colle-Koltanowski, so I could transpose to that, just with d5 before f5. I'm not sure how that works against the London or Colle-Zukertort.

 

Because I play the French against 1. e4, I don't need to worry about the Blackmar-Diemer Gambit. In fact, I'm considering sticking with my old move order of 1. d4 e6 before playing d5, just to avoid having to learn the Torre/Trompowski stuff. 

 

I don't even know what some of the other stuff is. I have the vague notion that the Exchange variation involves trading pawns with cxd5 exd5 early, and that the Catalan is where white fianchettos on the king side, but I have no idea how that affects play or what to do against them. 

 

Why do you both recommend the Tartakower? Is it just the easiest to learn? Is it the most common? 

m_n0

I. I recommend the Tartakower because it tends to be the richest strategically, and allows Black to play for a win more so than, say, the Lasker Variation.

II. The "Bf4 Variation" goes 1 d4 d5 2 c4 e6 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 Nf3 Be7 5 Bf4, where 5...0-0 6 e3 b6 leads to somewhat similar play to the Tartakower.

III. The Exchange Variation is 1 d4 d5 2 c4 e6 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 cxd5 exd5 - opening Black's c8 Bishop, but it tends to not be able to develop without making a concession. I would suggest the line 5 Bg5 c6 6 e3 Be7 7 Bd3 Nbd7 8 Qc2 h6 9 Bh4 Nh5, inducing the Exchange of Bishops, freeing Black's position to a degree.

IV. The Catalan is 1 d4 d5 2 c4 e6 3 Nf3 Nf6 4 g3. Here, I'd suggest jumping right into the main line with 4...Be7 5 Bg2 0-0 6 0-0 dxc4. It's a line that's not too difficult to learn (IMO), and will last you a lifetime. Plus, you can play it against any move order; e.g. 1 Nf3 d5 2 c4 e6 3 g3 Nf6 4 Bg2 Be7 5 0-0 0-0 6 d4 - White has avoided various lines with ...Bb4+, but you can still very much play the Classical main line with 6...dxc4.

I'd suggest the recent book "Playing 1 d4 d5" by Ntirlis for further information, although he recommends different lines in variations I and IV. 

SeniorPatzer

Of the Tartakover, Cambridge Springs, Lasker Variations of the QGD, which one is the easiest to transpose to when faced with 1. Nf3 or 1. c4 by White?

m_n0

Probably all equally so - if White wants to play the Bg5 line, he doesn't really have that much transpositional leeway - once he's played Nf3, c4 and Nc3, there's not much more he can do before playing d4 and Bg5. Whereas, if White wanted to reach a Catalan, he could play Nf3, c4, g3, Bg2 and 0-0 before going d2-d4.

Frostadro

Fromper wrote:

Thanks for the responses.

 

At my level, I know the London and Colle are still likely to come up almost as often as the QGD, so I'll want to be at least a little prepared. Although I play the Classical Dutch, I know that the Stonewall Dutch is great against the Colle-Koltanowski, so I could transpose to that, just with d5 before f5. I'm not sure how that works against the London or Colle-Zukertort.

 

Because I play the French against 1. e4, I don't need to worry about the Blackmar-Diemer Gambit. In fact, I'm considering sticking with my old move order of 1. d4 e6 before playing d5, just to avoid having to learn the Torre/Trompowski stuff. 

 

I don't even know what some of the other stuff is. I have the vague notion that the Exchange variation involves trading pawns with cxd5 exd5 early, and that the Catalan is where white fianchettos on the king side, but I have no idea how that affects play or what to do against them. 

 

Why do you both recommend the Tartakower? Is it just the easiest to learn? Is it the most common? 

Why do you both recommend the Tartakower? Is it just the easiest to learn? Is it the most common?  It's just a preference. The Tartakower has a strong pedigree and has a reputation for being solid. But, like all openings, it's all preference. Try playing the Lasker and Cambridge Springs to see what you like playing more.

kindaspongey

Possibly of interest:

The Queen's Gambit Declined: Move by Move

https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/7743.pdf

Playing 1 d4 d5

https://www.chess.com/blog/pfren/playing-1-d5-d5-a-classical-repertoire

https://www.qualitychess.co.uk/ebooks/Playing1d4d5-excerpt.pdf

MervynS

I generally play to avoid the Bf4 variations where the exchange variation isn't played by white. That means I do play the Cambridge Springs variation.

Centhron666

 You want to play chess for fun as an amateur, as most of us...so why do you want to waste your time to learn tons of theory lines...

 

As long as you dont have to earn money with Chess, stay with the Englund or play the Stonewall or try the Baltic Defence (1.d4 d5 2.c4 Bf5).

 

 

 

m_n0

Yeah, but even if you don't have aspirations of becoming an IM or GM, the QGD goes a long way toward teaching you how to play different structures (IQP, hanging pawns, Carlsbad, etc.)

The Englund is mostly just playing for tricks, and the Baltic is depressing for Black if White looks up a bit of theory. The Stonewall is easily the best of the three, but even still, playing the Stonewall teaches you how to play the Stonewall. Playing the QGD teaches you how to play chess.

imsighked2

Some people play a combination of the Nimzo-Indian and Bogo-Indian, and other combine the Nimzo-Indian and the Queen's Indian Defense. The King's Indian Defense is versatile -- it even works against 1. c4 -- but it has a lot of theory. I know some swear by the Slav Defense. I'm still trying to figure it out against 1. d4, but I do like the Nimzo. I got a draw against a 1. c4 player using the KID and feel like that, if I keep at it, I will understand it better. I know Fischer played the KID--117 games.

kindaspongey

A game from the recent Move by Move book:

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1478323

Fromper
Centhron666 wrote:

 You want to play chess for fun as an amateur, as most of us...so why do you want to waste your time to learn tons of theory lines...

 

As long as you dont have to earn money with Chess, stay with the Englund or play the Stonewall or try the Baltic Defence (1.d4 d5 2.c4 Bf5).

Well, this got off topic quickly. As I said above, I'm not looking for recommendations for other openings. I'm just looking for recommendations for what to do in the QGD.

 

Ironically, I've actually tried all three of those recommendations in the past, though not for very long in the case of the Baltic and Stonewall. I actually still play the Englund against lower rated opponents (below 1500 USCF, I guess). I think my record with it is 8 wins, 1 draw, no losses in slow USCF tourney play against opponents below 1600. And most of those were upsets, since I was only rated 1300 using it to beat 1500s when I first started playing it. But it's not good enough against higher rated opponents, which is why I stopped playing it when I was in the 1500s, and tried a few other things (including the Baltic and Stonewall) before settling on the Classical Dutch.

 

As for "why do you want to waste your time to learn tons of theory lines", that's actually why I chose the QGD. It doesn't require tons of memorization. It's a quiet enough opening that one false move won't kill you. There may be one or two traps here and there to remember, but that's nothing compared to sharper openings where you have to memorize tons of variations to stand any chance to get a reasonable position. And as m_n0 said, it'll teach me more about chess in general.

 

Besides, if that's your attitude towards openings, then why are you even in the openings subforum?

 

RubenHogenhout

Never play the QGD! It is a boring opening. Instead play Indian openings! Such like Nimzo - Indian  Queens Indian   , Grunfeld Indian or King Indian. Also possible is to play the Benoni. Difficult and unclear but complicated and fun.

LosingAndLearning81
RubenHogenhout wrote:

Never play the QGD! It is a boring opening. Instead play Indian openings! Such like Nimzo - Indian  Queens Indian   , Grunfeld Indian or King Indian. Also possible is to play the Benoni. Difficult and unclear but complicated and fun.

Both the Grunfeld and Nimzo can easily transpose from the QGD setup. If this guy is going to play any 1. d4/2. c4 opening, he absolutely must be prepared for d5 in every single instance, because, believe me, d5 is coming. Sooner or later. Especially at the club level.

I play the Nimzo as white and my opponents almost always play either d5 or c5 immediately after doubling my c pawns.

greydayeveryday
Tartakower. Oh, and read Sadler.
m_n0
greydayeveryday wrote:
Tartakower. Oh, and read Sadler.

Yes! I'd forgotten about Sadler's book. Absolutely this.

breaker90

@Fromper, Have you looked into the Ragozin variation? It's vey solid with attacking opportunities.