Why are people so obsessed by trading pawns in the French?
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Sep 6, 2020
0
#82
As a French player I completely agree with thriller...and I will also add that I disagree the exchange variation is boring or dull. It can get sharp as hell...just depends on how you play it. Now granted, at Simon Williams level...he might think it’s boring because everyone knows all the theory. At our level...nope. Doesn’t apply. I’ve had a lot of fun games in the exchange.
Sep 6, 2020
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#83
Also...the exchange solves your white bishop problem. Which can contest whites strong bishop and prevent some good kingside attacks from white. All good news for me. But like everyone said...if you really don’t like the exchange you should probably use a different opening. Cuz a lot of people get sick of playing the French advanced and do exchange just to break the monotony
Sep 6, 2020
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#86
SNUDOO - 4.exd5 is no good for White. Better is 4.e5 Nfd7 5.d4 c5 6.dxc5 Nc6 7.Bf4 - This is known as the Two Knights Variation of the French, normally reached via 1.e4 e6 2.Nf3 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 and then repeat the moves mentioned earlier in this message.
Sep 6, 2020
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#87
Oh I didn't know you're supposed to take on c5. I've been just blundering pawns in all of those games (mostly bullet thank goodness) and just attacked on the kingside lol.
Sep 6, 2020
0
#88
SNUDOO wrote:
Oh I didn't know you're supposed to take on c5. I've been just blundering pawns in all of those games (mostly bullet thank goodness) and just attacked on the kingside lol.
You don't always take on c5. Just in the Two Knights Variation.
After 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 c5, you should play 4.c3
After 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nd2 c5 4.exd5 and now 4...exd5 is best answered by 5.Ngf3 and 4...Qxd5 is best answered by 5.e3 or 5.Nf3. You should not take on c5 here.
After 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.e5 c5, White's best is 5.a3 Bxc3+ 6.bxc3 and Black can play 6...Qa5 or 6...Ne7 7.Qg4 and 7...Qc7, 7...Kf8, 7...O-O, or 7...Nf5.
But in the Two Knights Variation, yes, you take on c5.
ThrillerFan wrote:
chamo2074 wrote:
I have always been a french player. and 8/10 times I get the exchange french which is so annoying because it is boring. And I literally never get the Classical or the Tarrasch which I studied well as well! Also, when I face the french, I choose a line other than the exchange and the advance, which are very common at my level, I usually choose the Tarrasch or Nf6, and in both cases, I get the Rubinstein!!! It is also annoying because since I studied the french from black point of view, I only have recommendation to play the classical against Nf6, so I do not know the Rubinstein which is also annoying. What should I do? And why are people so obsessed by trading pawns? I understand that they like to release the pressure but also why? And why trade pawns? Why not push?
You've got to be kidding!
I WELCOME the Exchange Variation. That's half a point in the bag for Black already! White gets NOTHING! Thank you for giving me full equality IMMEDIATELY!
When on the White side, it depends what I'm playing. If I am playing Correspondence Chess, I answer 3.Nc3. If I am playing over the board, I usually answer 3.e5 with an occasional 3.Nc3.
3.Nd2 and 3.exd5 are NOT EVEN A REMOTE CONSIDERATION when I'm White!
This is the same thing I notice with the French Exchange for Black. Very easy early development for black, the biggest opening problem, the light-squared bishop, has already been solved for black by the early exchange of pawns at d5. I think White is really doing Black a favor with this variation. Many players with White use this variation to avoid the theory with the main line variations such as the Advance, Tarrasch, or Classical, but this takes the pressure off the center and gives Black an easy early development.
UglyFeetSavior wrote:
No, you want white to oblige when it is you that played e6 in the first place.
It would be like me farting at a restaurant and bemoaning the people next to me are exchanging tables.
Excellent answer.
horselover123 wrote:
LOL
I hate the French with a burning passion.
Whenever my opponent gives me the French, I give them the Advance Variation to annoy them by making both of us play a closed position. (Yes I know, some French players like this closed position thing, but I always imagine my opponent to be just like me, hating closed positions)
I really hate closed positions in chess UNLESS I have a space advantage.
I only play the exchange in bullet, where it's very easy to premove all your pieces out with little risk.
Most of the better French players play very well in closed positions, that is why they play this opening. You are probably playing into a position they prefer by using the Advance variation. They have a clear plan against it-just keep pressuring the dark squares in the center through c5, Nc6, Qb6, and later, f6. White can maintain the center, but needs very accurate play to do so.
people dont trade pawns when I play french
basically, 3 exd5 is really just one of a few ways to get a relatively open position vs the french, without having to learn so much theory which is the case with 3 nc3. the other try is 2 c4 heading for an isolani type of position. i don't know of any other line that can give white an open game vs the french apart from these 3. maybe 2 b3 counts somewhat but it is on the weird side of things.
ThrillerFan a écrit :
chamo2074 - The answer is simple. Players below about 2000 (yes, I know MANY 1800 rated players over the board that fit in this category) are clueless on how to handle tension. Two pawns are one square diagonal from one another and of opposite color, they can't handle leaving it there. They look for a lazy way out, limiting their opponent's choices, hence limiting their calculations.
The French is a PRIME example of this:
1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 - look at the factor of choice:
If I play 3.Nc3 - Black can directly attack the pawn again with 3...Nf6. Black can indirectly attack the pawn again by pinning my Knight with 3...Bb4. Black can completely ignore it and do something odd like 3...Nc6. Or Black can take it. That is at least FOUR OPTIONS for Black. FOUR things that I have to consider and calculate.
If I play 3.Nd2 - I have eliminated the Pin as 3...Bb4? will be answered by 4.c3. But that is still THREE OPTIONS I must consider. Direct Attack of the e-pawn (3...Nf6), Ignoring it (3...c5, which focuses on d4 and the poor placement of the Knight on d2), and taking it. Still too much for me to think about.
If I play 3.e5 - Well, ok, this eliminates the option of taking my pawn, but he still has 3...c5 and then some of these offbeat lines like 3...b6 and 4...Qd7. That's still TWO OPTIONS for Black
If I play 3.exd5, Black is virtually forced to play 3...exd5 as all other moves are just outright bad. Also, I now have an open area for my pieces, as I'm completely clueless how to handle my pieces in a blocked position like the Advance. I hear people talk about these pawn levers, but they are too hard to understand, and so I'll take the lazy route and exchange pawns!
That sums it up for you! What they don't understand is that opening the position and removing tension simply helps Black equalize the position!
Thank you so much @ThrilerFan for some reason I never thought of that
Sep 7, 2020
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#95
Chessflyfisher wrote:
UglyFeetSavior wrote:
No, you want white to oblige when it is you that played e6 in the first place.
It would be like me farting at a restaurant and bemoaning the people next to me are exchanging tables.
Excellent answer.
Correct. If somebody plays French, they have to accept that opponent is going to play Exchange line and you can't stop them from doing so. Maybe you can take back on d5 with Queen to make the position less symmetrical but it had own disadvantages.
Sep 7, 2020
0
#96
horselover123 wrote:
@bradct true, but I imagine that my opponent is exactly the same as me. Works well enough for me every time.
In other words - a confession that he or she is delusional enough to think all people are the same. I am X, therefore, my opponent MUST BE X!
I am 45, therefore all chess.com players are 45!
I am male, therefore all chess.com players are male.
I hate Star Wars, therefore all chess.com players hate star wars!
The point should be made by now. Thinking the rest of the world is the same as one self is sheer idiocy!
Thinking that a French advocate is going to hate closed positions is like thinking a vegetarian is going to love a meat lovers pizza!
Just study the exchange and problem solved!
Well how to know if your french oponent likes closed position or not: If he gets confused early on
Sep 7, 2020
0
#99
chamo2074 wrote:
Well how to know if your french oponent likes closed position or not: If he gets confused early on
If you are playing the French and you really hate closed positions, you are seriously playing the wrong opening!
chamo2074 - The answer is simple. Players below about 2000 (yes, I know MANY 1800 rated players over the board that fit in this category) are clueless on how to handle tension. Two pawns are one square diagonal from one another and of opposite color, they can't handle leaving it there. They look for a lazy way out, limiting their opponent's choices, hence limiting their calculations.
The French is a PRIME example of this:
1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 - look at the factor of choice:
If I play 3.Nc3 - Black can directly attack the pawn again with 3...Nf6. Black can indirectly attack the pawn again by pinning my Knight with 3...Bb4. Black can completely ignore it and do something odd like 3...Nc6. Or Black can take it. That is at least FOUR OPTIONS for Black. FOUR things that I have to consider and calculate.
If I play 3.Nd2 - I have eliminated the Pin as 3...Bb4? will be answered by 4.c3. But that is still THREE OPTIONS I must consider. Direct Attack of the e-pawn (3...Nf6), Ignoring it (3...c5, which focuses on d4 and the poor placement of the Knight on d2), and taking it. Still too much for me to think about.
If I play 3.e5 - Well, ok, this eliminates the option of taking my pawn, but he still has 3...c5 and then some of these offbeat lines like 3...b6 and 4...Qd7. That's still TWO OPTIONS for Black
If I play 3.exd5, Black is virtually forced to play 3...exd5 as all other moves are just outright bad. Also, I now have an open area for my pieces, as I'm completely clueless how to handle my pieces in a blocked position like the Advance. I hear people talk about these pawn levers, but they are too hard to understand, and so I'll take the lazy route and exchange pawns!
That sums it up for you! What they don't understand is that opening the position and removing tension simply helps Black equalize the position!