Why are there few Caro-Kann players?

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jposthuma

I play the Caro-Cann, and I actually think it can be a very interesting and agressive opening. Y'all should check out "Dangerous Weapons: The Caro-Kann" by IM John Emms and see what I'm talking about Laughing

ParadoxOfNone
BlackChrysler57 wrote:

Playing the Hedgehog is probably his best option, since it can be played against either 1. e4 or 1. d4. I normally don't like the idea of "holes" in the position, which is what happens when you flank a Bishop and play the pawn two file overs. You're supposed to play the pawn three files over. In other words, if the Bishop is at "g7", then you should play the d-pawn and not the e-pawn, and if the Bishop is at "b7", play the e-pawn and not the d-pawn. This will strengthen the holes at "c6", "f6", or "c3" and "f3" considerably.

However, in the Hedgehog, the Knight's play to "e7" and "d7" and so both center pawns can be moved. This gives White a nice space advantage though, and if judicious exchanges take place, Black is going to end up with holes in his position, which could be devastating in a Rook Ending.

The Hedgehog is difficult to beat down though, theory doesn't really favor it, Capablanca said it was lost (he disapproved of 1...g6 and 2...Bg7), and it takes a certain chess personality to really like so many pawns on the 3rd rank.

I do think it's much better than the "Tempo Down French/Bishop Locked Caro-Kann idea though, much better.

This is actually very close to what I shoot for... I find all that white can do is try squeezing me into a personal zugzwang, without any fruitful attacking chances, if I play well enough. Once I get any inaccuracy in play, to gain space, double a pawn, etc, I jump on it. I have actually used this position like a grinder and slowly worn several people to a nub. I enjoy it.

ParadoxOfNone

One thing to bear in mind here guys is that, I learned from general opening studies and also from Magnus Carlsen's style that, you can play an opening, to get you to the middle game and have a strategy in mind that, your opponent doesn't because, this is new to him.

Also I am not simply trying to get my pieces to the place, of a picture in a book. I am trying to take what my opponent gives me. I am betting they won't play a number 1 or 2 move every time. Also, unless you play absolutely blunderous moves, there is sort of a ying and yang to chess from my view point. Your opponent will make choices and there are consequences. As I stated before, I look for any inaccuracy in play to better be able to place my pieces in the opening or any stage for that matter.

While I am acutely aware of the concessions I will likely be making, I am banking on the fact that 1500-1600 players won't. It is sort of like playing for a trap. I have had guys whip there pieces into these impressive looking arrays, while I play passively, because they saw the position in a book, then I proceeded to kick the crap out of them because, they had no idea how to play the position.

ParadoxOfNone
Fiveofswords wrote:

well most people over a certain level do have a general plan of what they will do when their opponent just does nothing moves. Because this does actually happen more than you might expect.  Maybe not 1500-1600 players. I dont know.

But ultimately you are jsut giving yourself a position where you jsut cant do much. You can hope that your opponent attacks poorly, but thats it.

If you want to abuse 1500-1600 lack of ability to play in unfamiliar positions, why not get reaosnable mobility and THEN make the position unfamiliar? THats not so hard. ANd when they blunder from there you could jsut win, instead of slowly crawl out of the hole you dug for yourself.

I find the mobility brought on by opening the position more allows for counter play, many tactics and the greater likelihood that I blunder. I don't mind a sharp fight and going down swinging but, sometimes I like a change of pace. Think of it as letting the other guy wear himself out, while I take the punches.

ParadoxOfNone
XPLAYERJX wrote:

I agree with Fiveofswords Its hard trying to win with solid lines alone let alot putting yourself in a huge disadvantage than trying to come back take my game for example I lost, with a solid line, don't you just hate those mouse slips and I was on the white side

 



Ouch...

JGambit

to many people play the caro in my opinion, and it is solid.

Inyustisia

“The Brave Hedgehog”

There was a box lying out-of-doors.
Wild beasts came up to the box, looked it over, sniffed it, and licked it.
And then the box went one, two, three – and it opened.
Out of the box – one, two, three – came a snake.
The beasts were scared, and ran away.
Only the hedgehog was not afraid. He bent down to the snake and one, two,
three – ate it all up. And then he sat on the box, and cried out, “Cu-curu-curu!”
No, that’s not it – the hedgehog cried out, “Honk! Honk! Honk!”
No, that’s not it either! The hedgehog cried out, “Meow! Meow! Meow!”
No, that’s not it either! I don’t know what a hedgehog sounds like.
Who knows what a hedgehog says?”

- Daniil Kharms, 1935

Chicken_Monster
Inyustisia wrote:

“The Brave Hedgehog”

There was a box lying out-of-doors.
Wild beasts came up to the box, looked it over, sniffed it, and licked it.
And then the box went one, two, three – and it opened.
Out of the box – one, two, three – came a snake.
The beasts were scared, and ran away.
Only the hedgehog was not afraid. He bent down to the snake and one, two,
three – ate it all up. And then he sat on the box, and cried out, “Cu-curu-curu!”
No, that’s not it – the hedgehog cried out, “Honk! Honk! Honk!”
No, that’s not it either! The hedgehog cried out, “Meow! Meow! Meow!”
No, that’s not it either! I don’t know what a hedgehog sounds like.
Who knows what a hedgehog says?”

- Daniil Kharms, 1935

Kids--Just say "no" to mind-altering substances.

Are you advocating the Hedgehog Defense, or are you just posting crazy writings?

Inyustisia

both. mostly the latter though

MagicLian

Try with White Advanced Variation. 

1. e4 c6

2. d4 d5

3. e5

kindaspongey

The October 2016 issue of Chess lists the top twenty openings compiled from a list of 1874 August games where both players were rated over 2400 Elo. One can not take position on this list too seriously because it is greatly influenced by how the openings are grouped. For example, all the Retis are grouped together, while English is separated into 1 ... c5, 1 ... e5, etc. Nevertheless, for what it is worth, some of the list entries report: 66 Najdorf Sicilians, 60 Caro Kanns, 48 2 Nf3 d6 sideline Sicilians, 46 Berlin Ruy Lopezes, 40 Kan Sicilians, and 35 Taimanov Sicilians.

Rogue_King
GoddessKirino wrote:

I've recently heard alot of talk about the Caro-Kann bieng drawish and "boring".However in my opinion it doesn't give white any advantages early on and it also gives black a solid position and no "bad minor pieces" unlike other openings for black.
So the question is this,why don't higher rated player go for this opening and instead play the sicilian if it gives black such a fine position?

 

The modern carokann is very complex and tactical. To play it for winning chances black often has to accurately defend against kingside attacks which are very complicated and very difficult to play against top 2750-2850 GMs. Ding Liren used to regularly play the carokann until he experienced some extremely frustrating losses in positions where he wasn't worse according to engines, but holding it and finding the win was way too challenging. That is why he switched over to 1... e5 and a certain variation of the sicilian (if I remember right) that are much easier to play and take a lot less mental strain. Other guys like Jobava thrive in the insane carokann positions. In a recent game David Navara also recently drew Fabiano Caruana who is in the 2800s in the carokann. It was a pretty complex game.

ilikewindmills
I play Caro-Kann myself and don't get too many draws. However the main reason people stop is because of the rise of 'Advance Variation'
(1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.e5)
eElemente

I actually think the Carro-Kann having played it substantially now for at least more than a year may be slightly flawed. Though let me explain.

 

You have E6 and you Have C6. coming upon the ensuing variation of play

E4, D4, (Advance Variation, Exchange Variation (You), Exchange Variation (The other Player)

 

"The Advance Variation"

----------------------------

-The problem ensues immediately after E5, you press C5 and now you are playing the French Defense Advance Varation with one less Initiative.

 

"The Exchange Variation (You)"

----------------------------

-In the Exchange variation you lose the option of C5 immediately given you have already played C6. (Once again you are down upon Initiative) if you do.

 

"The Exchange Variation (The other player)"

----------------------------------------------

-If they exchange then you find yourself with an E6, D5 Pawn chain Rather than an D5, C6 pawn chain giving the white bishop freedom to come out where as otherwise it would have the inability to truly be effective in the game.

 

GM_chess_player

It's true cause i don't like to.

MayCaesar

Caro-Kann isn't to everyone's taste, it leads to a somewhat cramped position for black, and, unlike most French Defense variations, doesn't offer an immediate counter-play. It is my personal favorite response to 1. e4, and I even sometimes play 1. d4 c6, offering white a choice between playing against Caro and Slav. But this isn't the kind of opening you will see beginner / intermediate players choose frequently, you only start encounter it regularly at a somewhat advanced level.

 

1...c5 and 1...e5 will probably always dominate as far as responses to 1. e4 go, these are the sharpest openings, offering black strong and easy to understand counter-attacking opportunities. They are also the most challenging moves, as far as the fight for the center goes (the only two moves immediately attacking the d4 square). 1...c6, 1...e6, 1...d6, 1...b6, 1...d5, 1...g6, 1...Nf6, etc. are likely to always be a bit behind in popularity, for various reasons.

Skinnyhorse

     I also found it boring to play the CK.

triggerlips

The problem with the CK at club level is that it does not set white enough questions, and gives them less chance to go wrong.  

 

I notice this when I put my CK games on the chess.com analyser players of the white pieces, often quite weak ones can often go 20 moves without so much as a single innacuracy (according to stockfish analyser)  This is because he can play easy straight forward moves without being pressured by black.

 

Better to play defences where white has to work harder and is faced with moore challenging choices

GMKronicon
José Raúl Capablanca
 
Alexander Alekhine
 
Savielly Tartakower
 
Johannes Zukertort
     
GMKronicon

These players are the true master of the Caro Kann.