Why play the Dutch?

I have been beginning a series of these forums - this may or may not be the last one I post...

The Dutch is an aggressive choice against 1. d4 (or 1. c4, 1. Nf3, etc).  With Black's first move, he stakes a claim in the center, fighting for control of e4, while at the same time preparing a kingside initiative. 

There are a few ways to enter the Dutch Defense - the most notable being the immediate 1. d4 f5, which is generally considered the Dutch. This immediately fights for control of e4, and Black has many defensive structures at his disposal - normally choosing Nf6, and then either g6 with a Leningrad setup with f5/Nf6/g6/Bg7/0-0/d6, or e6, shooting for a Nimzo-Indian style setup with f5/Nf6/e6/Bb4/b6/Bb7, or even a Stonewall with f5/Nf6/e6/d5/Bd6/c6.  These aren't even all of Black's choices - there is the Antoshin setup with f5/Nf6/d6/c6/Qc7 (aiming for a quick e5), the Classical setup with f5/Nf6/e6/Be7/0-0/d6, and the list goes on.

If you take a look in the ECO, you will see there are quite a few different setups Black has to choose. 

Many people don't play the Dutch since it is not nearly as mainline as the Nimzo-Indian, yet the Dutch has been played by many strong players throughout the years.  As a matter of fact, the Dutch seems to slowly be getting a stronger following through the years - the Leningrad seems to be quite a popular setup in recent years. 

And there are alternative ways to enter the Dutch - for instance, if a player prefers the French Defense against 1. e4, often against 1. d4 they can choose 1...e6, and if 2. e4, then ...d5, and if 2. c4, then ...f5 with what I will call a Botvinnik Dutch, since he is the main player I know that ventured that move order often. 

So I ask the questions - why not play the Dutch?  It is very flexible, offering many possibilities, and Black definetely is playing for the win.  Sounds like fun to me!

you are definitely right!!!

i will play the dutch anytime when my opponent will make  1. d4 (or 1. c4, 1. Nf3, etc). 

i am a very very big fun of this opening and i think that this opening brings to us  heavy deafeats but also MANY MANY SUPERBRIGHTS VICTORIES!!!!

if you are curious i will send you - when it will be ready to sent... about 1 mounth - my DUTCH, exactly the moves you need until moves 8-12... i worked for this many many days but i think it worths!!! ...

in my opinion the best answer is THE STONEWALL!!! ... magnificent!!!

Yes, the Dutch is an interesting choice of opening, if only because it's unpopular, and not too difficult to understand (except maybe the Leningrad version, which is a bit tricky).

Why the Dutch over (for example) the King's Indian? In the world of relative main line black defenses to d4, they are in my opinion 1 and 2 for saying to white "I'm not playing to equalize".

Granted -- if white "knows what he's doing" then yes, it's always a chore to equalize as black.

Other possibilities for asymmetrical black defenses (a.k.a. playing to win) are the Budapest, the Benoni, and the Benko.

So, Birdy, I think to really answer the question, you have to compare the choices that one has as black. I'm familiar with the main ideas of all these openings, and I've played some games against all of them. The one that crops up in my games the most is definitely the KID. It is the one I know the most about.

If I were going to play for a win, I'd rank them in this order:

1. KID

2. Benko

3. Dutch

4. Benoni

5 (tie). Budapest, Albin (see below)

One last note: The Budapest is more of a "surprise" opening (or "gimmick" if you prefer) so while it is clearly last in this list, it is still ahead of other gimmick openings such as 1: d4 e5?!. Oh - I forgot to include the Albin (d4 d5 c4 e5?!) which may rank in a tie with the Budapest.

   When I play the Dutch Defense ...1.f5  it is usually in answer to 1.c4  or  1.Nf3  or  1 Nc3  etc.  If White plays the English opening he may as well then follow up with 2.d4   When people play a Queenside opening without 1.d4 as the first move I often throw the Dutch at them them.  They might be able to avoid other queenside openings but not the Dutch.  So it is good to have this defense in your repertoire.  Winning a few games with it makes wanting to play it easier.  Althought it seems positional (especially in stonewall formations) it is often a very dangerously tactical opening in over the board play. 

i like the dutch so i can get into the stonewall

I think the Dutch can be played either positionally or tactically, depending on the preference of the player. 

And ozzie, I really appreciate your feedback!  I never intend to make anyone think that the Dutch is the BEST system against 1. d4.  I simply want to make people aware of this defense - that it is a valid defense, and that people ought to give it as much of a look as they do with other defenses, in the hopes that people either learn how to play one of the systems, or at least learn how to play against it. 

I have been sprouting a few ideas on chess.com recently about different openings that I play, and the Dutch is my most popular choice against 1. d4, simply because I have played it a lot and understand it better than any other system against 1. d4.  Not that it is best, but it is a good choice, in my opinion. 

I've started playing the Dutch to D4 this year and have had mixed results. I can't say that I understand it fully yet, which may account for some of my less successful results. The games are always interesting! I'll keep on playing it until I have it sorted. I'm also looking into Bird's opening for white since it is basically the Dutch with an extra tempo - anyone had much experience with this?

Don't play the Dutch if you don't like taking risks (although the stonewall can be a bit quieter).

It is like the Sicilian against 1. d4, really.  Yes, if you want to play for a win, this is a good defense to explore.

When I first began to play the Bird's Opening, I was about a 1000 rated player, and I lost many matches in the beginning, since I didn't understand the opening.  So many times I would play the e3-d3 pawn structure, and then see my opponent get a knight planted on e3 early, forking my queen and rook.  I began to get through the "weaknesses" (not that they were weaknesses, but instead just my mishandling of the positions) and began to improve.

If you want to play for a win, the Dutch is a good choice.  I am preparing to set up a group for the Dutch - I was simply trying to generate some feedback on this forum, to see who might be interested.  From there, we could play vote chess and tourneys around the Dutch Defense.

If anybody has an opinion on their preferences of the "play-for-win" defenses against d4 (see my above post), I'd like to know.

I think the key words you used in that post was that you knew the opening the best.  I think understanding an opening gives you the best chances to win, obviously, so in your instance, the KID is a good choice.  I might do alright as well with it, since I do play openings like the Pirc and the Dutch. 

thanks for posting this. I was thinking about playing this.

What KID stand for?

What opening is that?

KID = King's Indian Defense

BirdBrain - yes you're right, I know it best because it occurs most in my games, but I was trying to answer it aside from that information. Does that make sense?

I played the Dutch defence on a whim a couple of months ago, for the first time, and for some reason it became pretty much my stock response to 1. d4. It definitely has potential, and if you can control the e4 and e5 outposts for the knights, you're obviously in a good position. Likewise with the black-squared bishop, which can become a dangerous weapon in the middlegame if the board opens up.

I think the Budapest Gambit deserves much more praise than you are giving it.  If White tries to hold onto his pawn, he will have a terrible structure and Black will eventually win it back.  The ones that give back the pawn often get a slight edge, but at least Black's game is free and active.

That's the problem with the Budapest - white can give the pawn back and get at least an equal game (usually it is either +/= or halfway between = and +/=). That's why I rated it so low - if black is playing for asymmetry then there shouldn't exist such lines to get white a good game so easily.

d4 Nf6 c4 e5 de Ng4 Bf4 Nc6 Nf3 Bb4+ Nbd2 Qe7 a3 Ngxe5 Nxe5 Nxe5 e3 Bxd2+ Qxd2 gives white a good game. Perhaps it is not quite +/= but it is definitely better for white than black. No real weaknesses on each side and white has the bishop pair.

dutch is quite interesting with both colors,so i like it very much

Why play the Dutch?  That's what I always ask myself.

Why play the Dutch?  If you want kingside attacking chances from the first move, it may be one of the best choices you can have.  Every opening gives you a different perspective of the board.  With 1...f5, you prepare to push ...e5 and get a pawn storm at the kingside.  Plus, you haven't yet committed where your bishops will be, so you still have flexible ideas.