Queen's Pawn opening, Zukertort! (bless you)

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Avatar of delcai007
BlunderMaster-123 wrote:

Both videos were great. I'm going with the London Jobava for now, slightly less favored and more complicated or now. Thanks again, all of you. My questions were all more than answered. It's much appreciated. I'm rewatching the Jobava again right now. Then I'm off to play Stockfish again, with a couple of new ideas.

Avatar of Josh11live
Don’t search “Zukertort” search “Zukertort opening” it might work I think Nf3 can be done in replacement of d4 but d4 looks better.
Avatar of Josh11live
I recommend the Colle-Zukertort system where it is as simple than the london and has more attacking possibilities with the combination of positional playing as well and I have a forum about it somewhere in beginners or openings part of forum so just search in chess.com forums “Colle-Zukertort” and my forum is I think called Colle Zukertort>London/Jobava London.
Avatar of delcai007
Josh11live wrote:
I recommend the Colle-Zukertort system where it is as simple than the london and has more attacking possibilities with the combination of positional playing as well and I have a forum about it somewhere in beginners or openings part of forum so just search in chess.com forums “Colle-Zukertort” and my forum is I think called Colle Zukertort>London/Jobava London.

I will check that out. Thanks. I saw that at one point yesterday, you're absolutely correct, it's the London System, Colle Zukertort Variation, pretty much exactly what I've been playing. I did try the London a couple of times, putting the Knight on d2.Stockfish likes that better but, again, I'm trying out Jobova / Colle-Zukertort, right now. I learned a lot yesterday. Thanks again, you and everyone else here.

Avatar of Josh11live
You’re welcome.
Avatar of Josh11live
I am used to people asking midgame/endgame questions in the beginners forum. I wonder what happened or people have the forums already. I don’t know.
Avatar of gambitnotablunder
Zukertort is a set up opening so order isn't very important, other than to bring your A pawn to A3 to protect your light squared bishop when black's queenside knight is developed. It should look something like this, with the knight in the center being willing to be taken as it's defending pawn is also covered by the B2 Bishop. If taken, sometimes they go into a fork without realizing it, but otherwise you're still utilizing the doubled center pawn to remove black's kingside defending knight for a strong Kingside attack. You'll use a rook lift and bring your queen kingside as well with your remaining pieces after exchanges.
 
Edit: Almost forgot, the only other ideas are to reinforce the doubled center pawn with f4, or you can sometimes choose to overprotect your knight with the other (or f4 prior to exchange) to secure the outpost square. Occasionally you can sacrifice one of your bishops. The white queenside knight is developed to d2 in order to trade off black's knight if they try to also plant it on your side of the board while keeping your dark squared bishop active, and the previously mentioned idea of following the other knight's same path. Use the empty diagonal left in your pawn chain kingside to develop your queen, and that's really all the theory to the opening, have fun.
Avatar of Josh11live
It is explained in more detail in my forum that is called Colle-Zukertort>London/Jobava London, and there I typed a whole essay so now I can copy paste if I need to but I can’t make analysis boards in the app so I put in all chess notations which means you have to do blindfold chess but it will help you train or you put whatever I said into notes or something and switch between chess.com and the notes which will help you.
Avatar of Josh11live
Also I answer your questions about the opening so ask because I don’t know what else to do with my life(JK I have things to do in my life)
Avatar of DreamscapeHorizons

Don't study openings yet, it'll stunt ur growth. An example of that is the mate in 2 u missed after Nxe5. Instead, spend that time on tactics and learning strategies connected to PAWN STRUCTURES. Also learn basic endings thoroughly. U'd be amazed how many games u can win just by being good at endings.

Avatar of delcai007

That's generally good advice, for beginners, sure. Here's the deal:

First, I played a little as a child, almost never as an adult, took it up in mid 2022, played at Lichess for a couple of months, joined chess.com in September, 2022, played at both sites for about a week, and exclusively here ever since... I quit playing chess entirely for almost a year, taking it up again about 6 weeks ago.
i'm wanting to take it more seriously at this point though I don't think I'll ever much obsess about ratings. We'll see how that works out.

Anyway, my first mistake was, yes, to try and learn - memorize, basically - openings... tedious, boring and mosrtly got me nowhere. What finally got me out of the 500-600 range was to:

1 - actually take pains to respect those (generally acknowledged) opening principles: play for the center, don't move pieces twice, develop your minor pieces, castle early

2 -Not rushing my moves. Early on, I'd look for what was the best move, as best I could tell, then make it, often without taking the time to thoroughly check out the board... what pieces might need defending most of all. I'd often get so absorbed by my own attack that I neglected to defend... lots of blunders.

3 -Not trading pieces unless it was actually to my advantage or at least not to my disadvantage. At first, it seemed like just normal chess to always trade. Bang bang bang... a few moves into the game and half the pieces are gone.

4 -Learning the end game. This was about the only thing I studied that actually made a difference. I studied it enough that it's probably my greatest strength. Agaonst an equal opponent, if I can get to the end game fairly equal, I feel very good about my chances, and my stats here prove I'm correct.

5 -being consistent with my opening, not just memorizing lines but more so trying to understand them.

About that, I sarted doing this: wanting to choose one or the other, I decided to lead with d4. Practicing against Stockfish, remembering those basic opening principles and, paying attention to what I was told were my best moves, I slowly developed a few lines then started using them in my games. I gained about 200 rating points in around three weeks, getting to 800 or so by June of last year. Then quit, as I said, coming back about six weeks ago, intending to improve my game.

I continued with that opening and thought it'd be helpful to study it a little. How might I do better? The computer, in most of my games as White, kept saying "Queen's Pawn Opening, Zukertort Variation" (or Chigorin Variation). I tried to find this everywhere, including at Lichess and on YouTube... no luck and lots of confusion, including reading Zukrtort was synonymous with Reti (this was about a week ago). Finally, two days ago, I started this thread.

And I'm very grateful for all the advice here, sincerely.

Avatar of delcai007

So, it almost goes without saying that the more important thing is not memorizing best moves but to be able to look at a board, familiar or not, and figure out the best move. But, for example, I tried 960 and didn't care for it. It takes away the advantage of memorizing lines, I understand, possibly a good idea but, personally, I missed seeing a normal opening, those familiar positions, more of them the longer I play, that I can spend time thinking about and studying. Still, I'm not trying to learn a lot of openings and, unlike when I started out, I'm not impressed, for example, to come across YouTube videos titled, like, "Learn this killer new opening!" or "Crush all your opponents with the Caro Kann!". And I hate it, for example, when beginners try to, basically kill the game early with the Schoolboy's/Scholar's Mate, thinking they don't need to actually learn how to play, just memorize three or four moves and hope their opps aren't paying attention.

Avatar of gambitnotablunder
Avatar of delcai007

For Black, I don't have much of an opening, except that I usually respond to e4 with e5, and to d4 with d5. I've been trying the King's Indian lately, after bfriefly trying the "Modern" opening, but it's mostly been a disaster. I'm thinking of studying that next (I'm seriously wanting to learn and improve this time).

Avatar of delcai007
gambitnotablunder wrote:
 

That was great! Perfect. Thanks for sharing that... it's now in my Library.

Avatar of pcalugaru
delcai007 wrote:

For Black, I don't have much of an opening, except that I usually respond to e4 with e5, and to d4 with d5. I've been trying the King's Indian lately, after bfriefly trying the "Modern" opening, but it's mostly been a disaster. I'm thinking of studying that next (I'm seriously wanting to learn and improve this time).

The KID IMO isn't conducive to club players.

It's a low frequency defense. White has a plethora ways of dealing with it. As a club player if you play that the KID your going spend a lot of time on it.. just to see an actual "main line" one out 5 to 10 games. Usually what's going to happen... Your going to get blasted by people playing the London set up, or the Semi Classical i.e. (Something other than a main line and they will be good at it...because a) having specialized in it & b) people for reasons unknown to me, cause practicality isn't one of them.. love to play the KID.

After a while you will realize that no matter what you do... there is no magic line that thwarts these Anti KID openings ... So defending against them will always be on your radar. All the while, you will have to know KID theory at an evermore level, the farther your progress up the ELO latter. (REMEMBER... IT'S ALWAYS GOING TO BE A LOW FREQUENCY DEFENSE.

Avatar of delcai007

Ah. Interesting. You know, tbh, a friend who likes the King's Indian, kept pushing me to try it... I finally did, but it always feels off to me, at least really unlike what feels natural. So you just helped me decide. I'm going with my first instinct. It's not for me. Interesting too to hear it's weak against the London, something like the opening I play. I;m going back to just playing it by ear for now, starting with e5 to their e4 or d5 to their d4. Thanks!

Avatar of gambitnotablunder
delcai007 wrote:
gambitnotablunder wrote:
 

That was great! Perfect. Thanks for sharing that... it's now in my Library.

No problem, I almost exclusively play flank openings such as the Dutch, benoni, Carro, Catalan etc. so I'm not very familiar with e4 e5 / d4 d5 with black.

Avatar of delcai007

I looked at the Dutch at one point. I'll look again.

Avatar of gambitnotablunder
 delcai007 wrote:

I looked at the Dutch at one point. I'll look again.

There's a lesser known set up system for black that looks like this but I don't remember the name