Chess 'n' Poker - Chess Forums - Page 2

HoldemRulzOK · 2008-12-13T19:51:23-08:00

Any poker players out there??? As you can tell by my name I love Holdem Poker and play heaps online specifically short handed limit (5 or 6 players to a table). I've tried no limit but prefer limit, I like the grind factor. Many chess players play poker like myself, it seems in a lot of instanc

Percyval

Feb 22, 2009

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#21

I like to play poker, Full Tilt Poker is a good site.

I would like to be in your group

Sinceerly: Percyval

RoyalFlush1991

Feb 23, 2009

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#22

Gonnosuke wrote:

RoyalFlush1991 wrote:

But to the original discussion regarding chess and poker being related, I don't think you could be farther from the truth.

Empirical observation says otherwise. I don't fully understand the cognitive science behind it but as a professional poker player I can assure you that there's a very strong correlation between the two disciplines. There are simply too many professional poker players who are highly skilled at chess for there NOT to be some kind of connection. Reading people is essentially a form of pattern recognition so it wouldn't surprise me at all if the ability to recognize patterns on the chessboard and play patterns at a poker table use some of the same cognitive processes. Poker, chess, backgammon...I know countless people who play and excel at all three games.

Perhaps someone with more of a cog sci background can shed some light on it?

With all due respect Gonnosuke, you're missing the most obvious association. Both are people with a lot of free time...

kungfoodchef

Feb 23, 2009

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#23

i would love to be in this group

AMcHarg

Feb 23, 2009

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#24

I'll join it, I play poker frequently.

the_big_j_77

Feb 23, 2009

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#25

RoyalFlush1991 wrote:

but really, how many of you would argue more than 50% of success at poker comes from the skill of the individual player?

I would. Now if you're talking about success in any given hand, then it's 100% random luck. But if you're talking about success over the course of thousands (or tens of thousands) of hands that are played over the course of years, then the winning players will always be the ones who are the most skilled. Poker is not about winning in the moment, or even in the tournament or session at the ring game. It is about winning consistently over the course of one's life as a poker player. (And by winning, I mean that your winning sessions outnumber your losing ones in terms of money won/lost - because no matter how good you are, you WILL have some losing sessions.)

While success in chess can be measured over the course of a single game (or a series of games in a match), poker success simply does not compute in that manner. Poker is a game of longevity and many factors play a part in an individual's success. It is also important to not that being a good (and successful) poker player requires many skills that are not always obvious to the casual observer. A good example that comes to mind is bankroll management. I could be the best poker player in the world. However, if I continually put my entire bankroll at risk every time I sit at the table, it is only a matter of time before I'm wiped out and have to start from scratch. However, if I never risk more than 5% of my bankroll at one time, then I would have to play very poorly to lose everything (or get extremely unlucky - and while that kind of bad luck is within the realm of probability, it is EXTREMELY unlikely).

So you see, to say that poker is a game of chance is only a half-truth. The element of chance in poker is undeniable, but the effect that chance has on the outcome (i.e. whether you're a winner or loser) decreases exponentially as the number of hands played increases. Winning players use this knowledge to their advantage, realizing that, through consistently good play over a long period of time, they will win more than they lose.

ToasTeR1094

Feb 23, 2009

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#26

I'll join, I love no limit holdem!

bellis

Feb 23, 2009

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#27

i love poker!!!! i learned when i was 6 and now gamble with my family. (i win)

KnightofCyndonia

Feb 23, 2009

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#28

I agree with that having to analyze a situation and then proceed from there is a lot like poker...Form the group, you have quite a few people interested. I would join

Eniamar

Feb 23, 2009

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#29

I went ahead and made one: http://www.chess.com/groups/view/poker-fans

HoldemRulzOK

Feb 23, 2009

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#30

Eniamar wrote:

I went ahead and made one: http://www.chess.com/groups/view/poker-fans

Thanks everyone for your comments, I had a fair idea that there'd be quite a few poker players amongst you and a dedicated group would be well supported. Thanks Eniamar for setting the group up you saved me a bit of work.

perp124

Feb 25, 2009

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#31

Hey TY, would you order me a grey hooded pokerstars sweatshirt with your FPP?

size XL.

I'll buy you lunch when I go to Vegas this summer.

NM Ty_Twadd

Apr 9, 2009

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#32

you better remind me when you get close to the date. When are you coming out? Will you be playing in some of the events at WSOP? And if it's McDonalds... No Deal. lol. Even better, I can get you the customized polo (with your stars screen name on it) if you prefer. But I don't want to get stuck with YOUR shirt, so you BETTER be coming.

Nytik

Apr 9, 2009

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#33

I can't play poker (not old enough) but I am confused as to how online poker is a good idea. Especially with all the programs around giving you all your hand stats, your chances to win, etc. How can any profit be gained from it?

Thanks for any replies...

chuzzlechamp

Apr 13, 2009

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#34

i love poker and have a texas holdem's poker game

Cret1n

Jul 18, 2009

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#35

RoyalFlush1991 wrote:

spoiler wrote:

In fact, I believe the skills you pick up in poker are more important in life than the skills you use in life from learning chess, you are a better man.

Care to elaborate? Because the "skills" in poker are essentially the ability to read your opponent and a bit of statistics if you so desire which are really not that useful in life.

But to the original discussion regarding chess and poker being related, I don't think you could be farther from the truth. Chess is a game where all decisions and outcomes fall completely with the player, outside factors prolly don't account for more than 10% of your success or failure as a chess player. Poker on the other hand offers quite a bit more emphasis on outside factors. Nonetheless, I like both chess and poker (chess more), but really, how many of you would argue more than 50% of success at poker comes from the skill of the individual player? You might as well compare chess to Monopoly!

I don't play games based on luck. If there was no money at stake in poker [etc]...would anyone play poker anymore? Why? Doesn't it just depend on the luck of each hand?

If there is some real skill in poker, how long would it take a reasonably smart person to learn to play well? In chess, it takes many years!

Cret1n

Jul 18, 2009

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#36

Gonnosuke wrote:

RoyalFlush1991 wrote:

Gonnosuke wrote:

RoyalFlush1991 wrote:

But to the original discussion regarding chess and poker being related, I don't think you could be farther from the truth.

Empirical observation says otherwise. I don't fully understand the cognitive science behind it but as a professional poker player I can assure you that there's a very strong correlation between the two disciplines. There are simply too many professional poker players who are highly skilled at chess for there NOT to be some kind of connection. Reading people is essentially a form of pattern recognition so it wouldn't surprise me at all if the ability to recognize patterns on the chessboard and play patterns at a poker table use some of the same cognitive processes. Poker, chess, backgammon...I know countless people who play and excel at all three games.

Perhaps someone with more of a cog sci background can shed some light on it?

With all due respect Gonnosuke, you're missing the most obvious association. Both are people with a lot of free time...

I know a lot of people with free time who don't play chess, poker or backgammon so I'm not really sure what you're getting at since it doesn't explain why so many strong poker players also play chess at a high level. I also know a lot of poker pros who would argue with your point that they have a lot of free time but that's another topic....

Empirically, it seems obvious to me that there's some kind of connection, some common thread between the two disciplines that attracts a certain type of person with a certain set of skills. As to what, I'm not a doctor or cognitive specialist so I can only speculate -- I just know what I see.

I know a few strong chess players who turn to poker simply because of the crazy amounts of money involved and they believe they can out-play the many meat-heads involved in poker! Maybe this explains the increasing number of strong poker players who also play chess!

[It's chess players who are turning to poker to make easy money, rather than successful poker players who have a crack at chess and end up rated over 2200]

NM TheOldReb

Jul 19, 2009

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#37

I think it would be fun to have a gang of us from chess.com play some poker together on poker.stars. How many are game ?

suavec

Sep 12, 2009

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#38

anyone one up for online-chess gambling

NM TheOldReb

Sep 12, 2009

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#39

AnthonyCG wrote:

Poker is 80% skill, 20% luck. The lucky players may when hands but the skilled players stay at the table the longest.

I dont agree with the % here as I have seen too many poker tournaments won by amateurs when even top pros are competing against them. How often does this happen in chess ?

the_big_j_77

Sep 14, 2009

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#40

RainbowRising wrote:

Anyone can play it. Ok, 75% luck 25% skill, that's my final offer ;)

The luck-to-skill ratio depends heavily on how much history you are accounting for. My earlier post on this thread (#26) explains this in more detail. The short of it is that as the number of hands played increases, the amount of influence that luck has on the outcome decreases exponentially.