Fischer: mentally disturbed or just mean spirited jerk?

True, I'm a first generation american...I don't think that only americans take offense.  I think some Israelis, to name one culture/nationality might have something to say about that.  Not to mention any one of african descent.

Some would argue that Nietzsche's philosophies, along with Wagner's operas and other German master-works, were utilized by the Nazi party as propaganda and thus somehow a contributing factor that culminated with a nationalistic ideology of murder and expansion. I don’t remember anything specifically anti-Semitic in Nietzsche's works that ive read (and its been years), but it seems that there was a connection to anti-Semitism and Nietzsche. he didn’t have anything wrong with him...really I though he died insane with syphilis.  not that it matters, i feel that the majority of people that have read Nietzsche would agree that he had at least a small demon in him with or without syphilis.  didn't he wirte "Moses and Monotheism" an anti-Semitic essay, or was that one of those jewish self haters like Marx or Freud?

 i agree here. maybe he wasnt the best example of a great man with dispicable problems or views, but i still say he wasnt quite right in the head. 

Nietzsche may not have hated Jews but I don’t think he liked Christians very much, or at least the institution of Christianity and its belief system. here's an excerpt from "Beyond Good and Evil" ..."And yet Christianity owes its very triumph to this miserable flattery of personal vanity (the idea that each individual has an immortal soul of equal value to any other individual): it was precisely all the failures, all the rebellious-minded, all the less-favored, the whole scum and refuse of humanity who were thus won over to it..." I don’t have a degree in philosophy, and im not even really claiming to be all that smart, but it seems to me that this is a pretty direct statement of abhorrence of the Christian faith. same thing as Jew bashing, but with Christians.

well, without plunging too deeply into Nietzsche vs pedobear . . . lol

I have never been one that was all that interested in people - they live their lives and I live mine.  I am however, very interested in great works.  Whether it be art, science, or the Model-T, great works are everlasting.  Long after the flawed person who created them is mouldering to dust - great works live on to inspire a new generation.

Bobby was a jerk, perhaps (most likely) he WAS mentally ill, but he was certainly capable of being as functional as he wanted to be.  He was quite sane while he was learning to read Russian, while he was visiting Tal in that hospital, when the notion struck him to play nice he was perfectly functional.  He cherry picked his sanity as it suited him.  He chose sanity less and less as his relevance dwindled, until he was left with nothing but bile and memories.

I, for one could care less.  I love his creation . . . his works.  He pushed the game and everyone who played it.  Like a latter day Morphy or Capablanca, Bobby arrived to pronounce that everything we thought we knew was not good enough.  More so than Staunton pieces and non glare boards, he changed the very way masters prepared for competition. 

The generation that followed Bobby was better because their teachers had been pushed by the crazy kid from Ney York.  Is there any question that the group that included Kasparov, Karpov, Portisch, Timman, Short, etc. had been pushed far beyond the abilities of their predescesors because of the upheaval Fischer created?

I can and will enjoy his play.  His games are his work, he is in the grave but the PGN files are eternal.  In a century, Fischer the flawed boy will be a historical anecdote, but those games will live on as long as there are two woodpushers left to dust off a board and celebrate great chess.  No need to feel guilty about that.

Archaic71  

says:  Bobby was a jerk, perhaps (most likely) he WAS mentally ill, but he was certainly capable of being as functional as he wanted to be.  He was quite sane while he was learning to read Russian, while he was visiting Tal in that hospital, when the notion struck him to play nice he was perfectly functional.  He cherry picked his sanity as it suited him.  He chose sanity less and less as his relevance dwindled, until he was left with nothing but bile and memories.

I agree with this you to some degree. But my basic questions here are unanswered.  They are:

1...how do you FEEL about being a fischer fan while acknowledging his nasty/psychotic side?

and

2...was he really psychologially damaged or just kind of an bastard? 

The idea that he could pick and choose when to be sane or  crazy leads me to believe that, if true, he was just a bad person with great talent.  It's easier for me to be more chartible towards him if he really was insane.

Another one comes to mind (if you believe some): Mohammad.

Concerning Fischer, it seems strange to note that he "hung out" to some degree with those he allegedly despised the most, i.e. Communists and Jews. And yet, despite his views, they seemed to treat him very well.

Can you imagine the rage Fischer must have been in when Kasparov became the dominant force in world chess? Both a Soviet and a Jew!!

Fischer was indeed a genius, but the price he paid was enormous. HE LIVED FOR CHESS. Nothing else was of importance. He saw enemies everywhere and those enemies had to be attacked and despatched.

On the chess-board these abstract enemies could be subdued calmly and effectively - he was the great master, the genius. However, in the real world... now there is the rub - Fischer could not relate effectively with the real world so he came over as a raving lunatic.

He was simply a sceptic who applied logic to the world around him.  Too bad he wasn't right about it being "The Twighlight of the Idols."

I really like Fischer as a human being and as a chess player. I'm not going to defend or argue this statement but I will say that I think a lot of you take what Fischer said more seriously than what he did. He was obviously disturbed and he's to be deplored not despised.

It's really upsetting to watch old Fischer television interviews while knowing what's just around the corner.

People are really just masses of genetic material reacting with their environment. Change your genetic components and your environment and you are a different person. Fischer never made a conscious decision to be the way that he was, just the same way you never made a conscious decision to be different from him.

By the way does anyone really think that Fischer was a true anti semite? His Jewish mother and multiple Jewish friends seem to testify to the fact that he wasn't really as anti semitic as he claimed.

It's also pretty ironic when you look at all the lambasting that goes on against Fischer for his "hate speech". Hating someone for hating others seems a strange concept to me.

Please don't bring up Hitler. It's a terrible analogy and if I have to explain why it's a terrible analogy maybe you shouldn't have been allowed out of grade school.

Fischer didn't hate the other players of his day, in fact, from what I've heard and read, he got along pretty well with him.  At the time he hated the system - and Soviet collusion in the Candidates tournaments.  In fact, it was Fischer that got FIDE to change them from a round robin to a series of knock-out matches, so the Soviet grandmasters were forced to play each other to win.  And, there was one time when Tal was sick and in the hospital and Fischer was the only one to go visit him on that occassion.

Fischer fought for the chess players - better conditions, more prize money, and it is because of him that Karpov, Kasparov, Anand, Topolov, etc, are all making great money playing chess.

Chess 960 - originated from Fischer. Wow this guy is fantastic! So many revolutionary contributions to chess.

bruce pandolfini on fisher:  http://vimeo.com/4009232

an opinion that actually counts for something :P

Fischer was a sad, ill man. What more do we need than his behavior preceding the infamous Rekjnivac match to prove this?

So none of us bears any moral responsibility for what he says and does? Thank God for that! I was about to call you on your risibly silly post, but now I see it's not your fault, just a tragic combination of poor genetic material and poor environment.

You mass of genetic material, you.

my original point with Nietzsche was simply that sometimes great people have problems, but we can still enjoy what they did while distancing ourselves from the negative aspects of their personality.  we got off subject a little with the digression into whether or not he was an anti-Semite or an anti-christian. 

Is it reasonable that Filipinos like him despite of the body of his actions and his words?

I excuse him for what I see as a mental illness but excepting that were the case how should I (or the average joe) feel about him?

He said the US should be wiped out. That includes me and everyone I love.

Because I was a huge fan of the guy for years, remembering first hand the ongoing accounts of his drive to the WC, I felt betrayed by him, though the average guy wouldn't have a basis for that sentiment.

For the average United Statesian who doesn't understand what I think I do about Fischer, it's reasonable to despise him.

For me,  compassion and sadness for lost potential seems to hold sway.

Well as the OP, I can tell you that this has been a very interesting discussion.  Here's an interesting video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=px2PoGr0AkE

I really admire Schaap for not backing down to Fischer.

hehe this is unfair. Who said we liked what he said during the September 11 attack? Is this your equation: "I liked fischer, but his rants on 9-11 attack made me dislike him from then on onwards." Dude I know how high the emotions were during that time, but fischer's sentiments on the US and the jews did not culminate from nowhere.

My thoughts were the same of Eugene Torre, fischer's long time friend, - we let fischer say whatever he wanted to say but that doesn't mean as friends (though i'm never RJF's real life friend) we had to agree on everything.

The real downside is that fischer's a public figure, he's got followers, probably some were fanatics. His rants might had impact on their emotions and aggravate the situation. I'm speaking of global scale not just Filipino fans. But fortunately we know where he was coming from, and had not to take that whatever he says is bible truth.

Even the best comedians cry in private, and still put on a smile in front of an audience. I'm a chess player, my most concern is what happens on the board, and Fischer could provide a lot. I admire the beauty of his games, I have this Bruce Pandolfini's 'Bobby Fischer's Outrageous Chess Moves' book. Outside of chess, I pity him for what happened to him, but personally I never liked his 9-11 rants. But after that, I go back to chess, and continue to admire him - as a chessplayer.