Kramnik, Karpov, Kasparov. Is Degradation of Calculating Ability the Main Reason for Retirement?

Vladimir Kramnik just announced his retirement from chess a couple of days ago.  I think he's only 43.  

Everyone knows that chess is a young man's game.  It's pretty hard to compete at the level you're used to when you get older.  Although I think Lasker still competed at the age of 67 and aquitted himself pretty well, if I recall correctly.  

I've been reading recent posts and comments about how very important and vital it is to calculate concretely and accurately.  Plus it has to be relatively fast for the time control.

So why do top players and average players retire when they get older?  That is the question.  Could it be lack of physical fitness and stamina?  Are their "nerves" shot, and the stress of a tournament game is too much?   Have they lost their their ability to analyze and evaluate a position?

The only thing I can think of is this:  They don't calculate as well as they used to.  If it was a physical fitness issue, then they could train all the time, go to the gym, run, swim, whatever.  So although physical fitness is a part of it, it can't be the main thing. 

Is it an issue of losing your nerves?  I don't think so.  There's a lot of old folks with a lot of nerves.  However, you wanna define "nerves."

Has Kramnik, Karpov, Kasparov, and all the other greats (i.e., Yasser Seirawan, etc....)  not able to evaluate and analyze a position as well as they did when they were younger?  I don't think so.  If anything, they should have more stored chess patterns in their chess memory than the younger players.

So what is it?  My hypothesis (simply because I don't have any data or citations) is a reduction in calculation ability.  My guess is that young, in-his-prime, Kasparov could calculate a fairly deep and wide tree of variations quickly and accurately.  For argument's sake, let's say 7 variations and 5 subvariations about 8 moves deep.  And he could do it in like 20 minutes.  (I'm just making this up.  I don't know.)

But now, because he's in his 50's and HE KNOWS what he used to be able to do, he says to himself when he sees a complicated position, "I used to be able to do this in 20 minutes.  Now it takes me 40 minutes at least.  I just can't hang with the elite GMs any more."

An analogy would be like sprinter Usain Bolt.  He gets older, and he finds out he just can't run as fast as he used to.  Time to retire and coach the next generation.  Now Usain is still faster than nearly everyone else, but not at the level that he's used to compete and win.

Is it the same thing with Grandmasters (and everyone else on down) as they age:  They just have a natural reduction in calculating ability, deep, accurate, and fast.  And that this generally accounts for why they retire from tournament chess, yes?

I think it's a combination of fatigue and what you said.  The problem is that at this level, one bad move loses the game and in a long 4-7 hour game age comes in to play.  The young guys will just complicate the position and draw the game out until the tank is empty and you blunder.  A bit like the Carlsen-Anand game from the same tournament.

Very reasonable.  Question:  Is there anything that can be done to bolster and improve mental stamina as chess players get older?  Or to significantly slow the rate of decline in mental stamina?

The lack of self-responsibility is amazing these days. At least you dont say the loss was caused by global warming.

"The problem is that after a point there is no motivation. Kramnik could stay in top 50 for many years but what's the point?"

This is key, I think. Tournament play, at the very top level, demands tremendous focus and concentration. Everyone you meet is trying to beat you, and if your intensity slackens even slightly, they are on you like a pack of hungry wolves  The minute chess at this level stops being some combination of a pleasure and an addiction, you won't be able to maintain your standard. But it's not just a matter of age. Vishy Anand seem very happy continuing to play at a high lever. And while he (probably) isn't going to become world champion again, he is still one of the world's best

They are old

I believe Kasparov and Kramnik want to retire while still on top 20. They can play chess after 50. But their ranks would be below top 30. 

He probably couldn't Kram any more chess in, so it's fair he wanted to nik off.

What a beautifully written constructive thread, a pleasure to read. So to summarise, mental fatigue and a slowing in accurate calculation leads to a slightly lower performance in world rankings and tournaments. In some players, this reduces motivation and drive, which could end up in a downwards spiral, and so they retire. 

I will add another factor into the mix. There's quite a difference in income as you drop in the world rankings and win fewer big tournaments. A chess player at that level is probably quite smart, and capable of doing another job quite well, and so in some cases, financial reasons might contribute to a decision to retire.

I think my concentration suffers from my age.

Also i think it is harder to learn.

But i could be wrong .

I'm 43

The recent Carlsen-Anand game might be a case of mental stamina (Magnus is 27 or so, and Anand is 49 or so, old enough to be Magnus's dad.)

But Magnus did the same thing in 2018 to Karjakin and Nakamura, grinding and grinding and grinding in equal drawish positions until they crack under pressure for failure to play accurate and precisely all the way to the end.  And yet Sergey and Hikaru are in the same age group as Magnus.  They can't claim old man's declining mental stamina like Anand can.  Magnus does that Chinese water torture thing to everybody.  And he keeps very physically fit too.   

Disclaimer, I used to think end games were easier to calculate, especially for grandmasters because there are fewer pieces on the board, but apparently you can still pose immense calculation problems for your opponent in seemingly innocuous endgame positions.  

And it's in this 3rd, 4th, 5th hour of play where declining mental and psychological stamina affects one's calculation and evaluation precision for correct decision making.   (And this is more acute and/or prevalent in older brains.)

Eg. GM Shankland resigning in a drawn position to GM Giri.

I'm in my 60s. And yes, both mental and physical stamina decline after your 30s. It's a minor miracle that I can still play the game at all.

I think concentration and stamina is the main thing that goes as you get older. Classical chess requires a tremendous amount of energy and focused effort which will naturally decline as you get older. Kramnik's calculation ability if it could be quantified I don't think has declined, what has declined is his patience to think concretely for extended periods of time.

There's a difference between the Carlsen Naka/Sergey games; in those games the position was still very complicated and Magnus is the best in the world in that situation.  Here Anand should have held this draw easily.  I think even a weaker titled player could have done it and Anand simply made a calculation error that a 2700 player shouldn't make.  As for Shankland, again it was an evaluation error, not a calculation error.

Anand is still going strong - being 6 years older than Kramnik. Perhaps Anand uses some of the traditional Indian medicine and diet to stay younger... Not sure. However, I believe that in the case of the other greats you mentioned, the reason has more to do with psychology than anything else.

Kasparov & Kramnik retired when they realized that they cannot compete well with the new generation. Kasparov left when he was still #1, Kramnik when he saw no chance of climbing back to the title - he has been considering retirement since 2018. I'd add that even Fischer quit when he got the title - most likely because he felt like he was not going to be able to keep crushing the competition. And he left the game before age of 30.

Karpov is probably the only one who gave it all. His rating declined but I guess at some point he accepted the nature of the beast - whatever goes up, must come down. In staying and competing, he gave the younger players a shot of defeating a World Champion - and that's something to applaud to.

I'm getting up there too.  I do appreciate age based chess tournaments.  Scholastic, Open, and Senior tournaments (ages 50 and 65).   

Also, there are scientific biological differences in mental and physical stamina between men and women, yes?  That seems accepted, and so let FIDE and other national chess federations continue to sponsor girls-only and women-only chess competitions.  While also allowing girls and women to compete in open events.   That seems fine to me.  

If there is a future super improved Judit Polgar 2.0 who wins the Open World Championship, that would be a most remarkable barrier breaker for women and chess.

Boris Gulko mentions in his book: "Lessons with a grandmaster" That there are 2 types of memory, and i dont remember the exact terms used, so i will simply call it "short term" and "long term" memory.  A psychologist/psychiatrist/or something like that friend of his states that what we know about strategy is retained in our long term memory.  And what we know about tactics, is stored in out short term memory.  So as we age, we lose....lets just call it as it is...we start to forget tactical patterns.

He does?  It wasn't mentioned anywhere.  Would you be able to give a link to this?  

If I recall correctly, I think I read that Kramnik smokes.  If so, that would impair one's stamina along with aging.

Oh yea...Kramnik has been a long time smoker.