This thread has some interesting comments if you're willing to read a bunch of arguments in the middle.
The Unknown Morphy: was he really that strong?
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Yes, Kasparov would of beat Morphy easily.After 1858 Morphy was content to playing weak players, he had a chance to play Kolisch in Paris, 1860 but decided to play De Rievre, a player he beat many times. Kolisch was in Paris in 1860 and Morphy decided not play a strong master; instead Morphy many played many weak players in Paris. Morphy played his weak friend Maurian many games until 1869 and atfterwards he quit chess. I read his mother told him to quit chess, that show he had a weak character and he did. There was the very strong Anderssen, the much improve Paulsen, Kolisch, he was very strong master and the young master Hirschfeld and he was very gifted attacker and Neumann, he is also another strong attacker and Mackenzie and finally Steinitz.
Batgirl, what do you have to say? I think it's widely accepted she's the one who knows more about this than anyone else here.
Batgirl is not looking Morphy's character or as a player; strong master welcome the challenge to play other strong masters. Morphy was living on his past glory and he decided not to play any strong master; what did he accomplish after his success in Europe betweeen 1857to 1859, and did he have a successful career as a lawyer? The answer to that question is, " No!"
Morphy was a failure and never had a successful career as a lawyer, he remind me a lot like Fischer.
Morphy retired at 14, coming out of retirement to play in 1857. He never studied and rarely played in the 6 years in between. He played for two more years, then retired again. The reason he failed as a lawyer had to do with his mental illness and the fact that he didn't serve in the Southern armies in the US Civil War.
Morphy retired playing in 1869 and I doubt he had mental illness, it would be impossible to a very strong master. Morphy response to Kolisch's challenge by declining and give a reason; stating that Kolisch fail to beat Anderssen and Paulsen in a match but Andersssen and Paulsen were a lot stronger. Kolisch crush Barnes, the player that give Morphy a tough time. Much later in life Morphy develop mental illness but in 1860.
I'm not saying Morphy's illness manifested itself in 1860; that was much later. He stopped playing publicly around 1864, privately around 1869. His failure as a lawyer was due to his fame as a chess player and the ostracism he faced by never serving. Combine that with the onset of his illness (@1865) and he never stood a chance as a lawyer. And his schizophrenia is well documented.
One of my main source is The Encyclopaedia of Chess by WIM Anna Sunnucks: this what she wrote about Morphy, "And his mother now extracted a promise from him, which he kept, never again to play chess in public." "Stifle by his environment, deprived of chess, in which however he maintained a secret interest, unsuccessful in law and in life, he lacked the strength of character either to overcome his difficulties in the south or to opt for chess somewhere else."
This is what ruin Morphy, being deny to play chess and because of chess he became important, and without chess he was a nobody.
yureesystem wrote:
One of my main source is The Encyclopaedia of Chess by WIM Anna Sunnucks: this what she wrote about Morphy, "And his mother now extracted a promise from him, which he kept, never again to play chess in public." "Stifle by his environment, deprived of chess, in which however he maintained a secret interest, unsuccessful in law and in life, he lacked the strength of character either to overcome his difficulties in the south or to opt for chess somewhere else."
This is what ruin Morphy, being deny to play chess and because of chess he became important, and without chess he was a nobody.
Given that we're discussing a man who's prime was 150 years ago and who's achievements have been acknowledged by the best players in each subsequent era since, I think we can agree that Morphy's career was hugely successful.
Could that career have been more successful? In every career there is room for improvement. But room for improvement applied then, applies now and will apply in to the future.
Now it is time to mention one the lion Morphy had to meet, this English is a very strong master; Samuel Boden, he is great attacker and one hardest opponent Morphy had to go against. If you had any doubt, I show two of his games.
The next game Morphy played a bad opening and he has a bad position; his opening knowledge in Ruy Lopez is lacking.
The above game I would like to add to the opening. All your pieces should work together and not get each other way.
I believe because of Morphy lack of understanding in positional play, Steinitz would of beat Morphy in a match. Steinitz understand pawn structure better, he was better ending player and a much better positional player.
Feb 10, 2015
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#13
Steinitz would have been obliterated in a match with Morphy.
Just look at their respective scores versus common opponents, such as Henry Bird.
In my opinion the first player who could have even stood up to Morphy at all was Emmanuel Lasker in the 1890s.
Morphy was STRONG.
Morphy was the best.
Feb 10, 2015
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#15
Actually, in the first game you showed, morphy played correctly, I think. At least, he did not make any dubious moves.
According to Fischer, around 1970, id=f Morphy was reincarnated then he would beat everybody alive then.
In general a more recent top-level player should always be considered stronger than an earlier top-level player. Advances in theory and technique inevitably improve the strength of subsequent generations.
Robert0905 wrote:
Actually, in the first game you showed, morphy played correctly, I think. At least, he did not make any dubious moves.
According to Fischer, around 1970, id=f Morphy was reincarnated then he would beat everybody alive then.
Fischer's opinions should never be taken seriously -- not even those relating to chess. He declared chess to be dead in the 90s...
He was a pretty strong player, but we'll never know what could've been had he still been active when Steinitz 2.0 came on the scene.
chessmichky wrote:
"Fischer's opinions should never be taken seriously -- not even those relating to chess. "
I agree completely! Why listen to the opinions of one of two or three strongest chess players who ever lived? A man dedicated to chess history, who played over hundreds of 19th century games. What could such a patzer have to tell us that would compare with the supreme chess wisdom of yureesystem?
I so glad you are so objective and what is your otb rating? So you know more than a FIDE master and have went through all Paul Morphy's games; well FIDE master Macon Shibut might know a little more than a non-expert. Have you ever read Paul Morphy and the Evolutuion of chess Theory by FM Macon Shibut. In his book he show some of Morphy's games lacking in positional understanding, poor endgame technique and tactical blunders. I personally went through over four hundred games of Morphy and read accounts of Morphy refusing to play against the very strong European masters, one them being Kolisch. Do you know who is Kolisch? Paul also refuse to play against a much improve Paulsen in 1860 and what about the other very strong European masters Hirschfeld, Suhle, Neumann,Machenzie, Blackburne,Chigorin and Steinitz. It is nice to be completely clueless and a sheep; Fischer might left out Morphy's blunders and maybe not being objective, you should of know even Bobby's has his own ommissions.
Morphy beat every European Masters and goes home as a hero in America and quits chess. Did Morphy really played all the strong European Masters, my answer is, "NO!" He had a chance to play Kolisch but chicken out. Paulsen and Anderssen were becoming a lot stronger and we have Steinitz and other young lions strong European Masters that Morphy never played!
Look at this game Morphy fail to win against a weak player and you have your answer; Morphy was very weak positional player.
I am reverse my opinion on Morphy, Batgirl inform me this was play blindfond game. I understand some of reason why Morphy did not want to play chess, one them he made a promise to his mother and another he did not want to be consider only as a chess player. Morphy was extremely strong and a chess genius, he hardly study to become the strongest player during his time. That is remarkable!