Which Elite Chess Player of All Time Has the Most Natural Talent?

We have to also allow for the likelihood that some natural talents were never discovered.

Imagine for a moment that Shirley Temple had natural talent. Do you think that her parents would have encouraged her to use it and develop it?

i agree with you, natural talent to me is not just what you have when you start. but what you do with the information you get.

Capablanca, even if studied chess, worked much less than e.g. Alekhine. He was rather lazy but achieved brilliant results (like remaining undefeated for 10 years or so)

Another example could be Winawer. He was completely unknown cafe-player until he took 2nd place in his first serious tournament

At the same time, the "doesn't really care about chess and learns everything by himself and still beats everyone"-players are impossible today. For someone like Morphy it was enough to have his talent and be the best player in the world without really caring much about it. Today kids study a dozen hours a day for almost a decade and become GMs in their early teens. You just have to study hard to be able to compete, no matter how talented you are today.

you use the term coffeehouse player and than you tell me Capablanca had more natural talent than Fischer ;)

even though it doesnt necessarily contradict each other, but still noteworthy lol

i believe you have misconceptions about what talent actually means and what it takes to become GM.

I

So what does talent mean and what does it take to become GM?

You have to consider Magnus Carlsen for this.  To compete at the level he does, in this modern era, with limited opening preperation, at his age is unreal.

Vassily Ivanchuk is also one to consider.

One big difference between Kasparov and Fischer was that the latter had one single interest. No social life, no girlfriends, no interest in the school from which he dropped out as soon as it was possible, no reading. Fischer spent his entire waking life on chess for a very long time, and then he was also burnt out before he was 30.

Kasparov had friends, girlfriends, and later also wives and children, had the highest grades in all his school subjects and was especially interested in history and languages, and continued his language studies at the university. When preparing for important events he still spent some time on his studies and even more time on football. Before the Interzonal in 1982 he watched every single game of the football World Cup. He was engaged in politics already then, and wrote books from the middle of the 1980s.

So Fischer and Kasparov were different in the way that Kasparov was less single-minded and spent less time on chess, but they were alike in that they both obviously were extremely talented. I think Kasparov said that the most important talent is the talent to work hard, and he should know what he is talking about.

I only wanted to show two examples of players who did not work hard but had outstanding results. Fischer was quite the opposite with his 12-14 hours of training daily.

Fischer is hard to compare though. He might have been the most addicted to chess amongst all top-level players (competing probably with Alekhine and Bronstein). The more one works, the more it suggests he has less talent - but Fischer simply could not live without chess, the game was an integral and most important part of his life

that is just your assumptions, you dont have honest proof for that.

I dont think you know so much about Kasparovs or Fischers private life. 

For me Fischer was the greatest talent, but ofc you cant ignore the fact that Kasparov ruled for 20 years.

Have you ever read any article or book about or by Kasparov or Fischer?

so does it mean you know their private life??? you dont!!

What is it you claim is "just my assumptions" that there is "no honest proof" for? That Kasparov was very good at school, liked to study not only history and languages, read lots of books, was very much into watching and playing football, had several long relationships etc? Or that Fischer didn't? These things are all well known facts and not some sort of dishonest assumptions.

Julio Granda Zuñiga

Boris Spassky

Capablanca.  1916-192 without a loss.  Not as many games straight as Tal, but Tal at least had peers when he played.  Capablanca was well out front of everyone for nearly a decade. 

It has been said that Kasparov remembers everything he sees, from phone books to every game he has ever played. If that is true, that is quite a talent. 

Carlsen will have to hit 2950 before he achieves the same rating gap Fischer had.  Fischer worked very hard, but to say he wasn't a monster talent is naive.

Yes, but at the same time Topalov had a much bigger rating gap than Kramnik and Anand ever had taken together. Doesn't have to mean that Topalov is the most talented of the three. But talent is impossible to measure. I've read Carlsen claim that there are periods during which he doesn't think about chess at all, and Kasparov considered him lazy. Carlsen should rank somewhere up there among the most talented players, he is after all only 22 and has achieved a lot (and that without the same level of dedication as many other players).

i dont know Kasparovs privat life to be honest, even though i probably watched already over 10 hours of KAsparov interviews and documentaris lol. Damn Mr Kasparov give me my life back.

But seriously that doesnt mean you know anything about Fischer. Besides didnt the one guy say that his father drove with him and Fischer to a Baseball games???

You know absolutly nothing about Fischers private life, no1 does. There is a reason its called private.

Journalist make stories up, i know journalists personally who write for newspapers. You even see it on tv, stories about celebrities, some are often totally invented just for pr.

No1 knows Fischers private life and even if they did who knows if they are honest in the first place.

If you think Kasparov is better ok, say you think he is better, but base it on facts, not on your own assumptions.

Besides i believe even for Fischer it would be possible to concentrate the entire time on chess, a brain needs rest as well.