Who is the greatest chess player of all time ?? Bobby Fischer ??

Yeah, but now you have me wondering. If he really didn't use seconds that - in my mind - makes him an even stronger player. Do you have anything else that talks about him not using seconds? 

Nope.  It was just an assumption, based on him not using a second for Taimanov and him generally being an unsociable loner.   I bet they had to do some serious convincing to get him to agree to using a second though.  I'd also bet that he ignored most of their analysis and came up with his own lines.   lol   

Fischer always would analyse his games with other players. He'd prepare for games with a "2nd" the same as all GM's before big matches. Think again if you think he was "above" 2nd opinions. True, he often dismissed advice and analysis, trusting in his own judgement . But he always had a 2nd, if not to remind him to tie his shoe laces.

Source?

I have read several books on The Turk. There were a number of prominent players who 'manned' the turk. They did not need to be of small stature but I guess it helped over long periods inside. Many of the stories are apocryphal and open to debate, however most are interesting as in the reported games it played with Napoleon, who by all accounts was a poor player and sacrificed pawns willy-nilly.

By small stature I meant less than 5.10 feet and weighing 150 lbs or so. From what I read, 6ft and 180 was litterly impossible.

Fischer - Karpov 1975 would've been a fantastic match indeed.

But let us not blame Mr. Fischer or Mr. Karpov please. Fischer wanted a certain system - first to win 10 games, draws not counting. Challenger had to win 10-8 to claim the title. Champion could retain the title if the score was to be 9-9, prize fund split equally. I find these conditions fair. It's up to the challenger to prove that he's superior and 10-8 is not too much to ask. If the match had taken place under these conditions, I think Fischer had the better chances (as admitted by Karpov), albeit Karpov was also strong and had some chances to take the match. I don't think Fischer was afraid of Karpov or anybody else for that matter. He was a certain type of guy - he would play only and only if all his conditions were met. Most of his conditions were reasonable. Too bad they weren't accepted and the match never took place. Also worthy of note is the fact that Fischer had walked out of matches before if his demands weren't met. He was consistent and clear about his demands an he had all the right not to play if he thought that the conditions weren't fair.

Now, Karpov couldn't just go along and accept all Fischer's demands. He was not a free man to do so. The Soviet federation was the one calling the shots. So, this is not Karpov's fault either.

So, let us let the matter rest. As to the question who's the greatest ever, I don't think there's a way to know, so, let us be comfortable not knowing and let us let that matter rest too. And that's all I have to say on the matter. :)

Anyone who was aware in 1975 knows that Karpov wanted the match and Fischer didn't. 

You're right.  After the 1972 Fischer-Spassky World Championship, where Fischer got his way on everything and won, there was no way that the Soviet Federation was going to let it happen again, with Karpov.  I don't blame them for standing their ground in '75.  Fischer would have crushed him under those terms.  Karpov was famous for drawing tough games, so they were not about to allow them to toss out the draws and force Karpov to win by two.   I disagree with you on one thing though.  I don't agree that Fischer's demands were reasonable.  Neither were his demands in '72.  Why should any contender get to change the rules in his favor like that?  Fischer was a selfish, cry baby and deserved to have his title taken away from him in '72 and '75.  I still think he's the greatest chess player of all-time, but he was a selfish whiner and quite crazy.  

Paul Morphy is the greatest chessplayer ever.

He was 1,85. Fischer I mean; but I must admit I always thought he was higher than that, must be his very slim figure that makes him look higher.

advancededitingtool1 wrote:

mdinnerspace1 wrote:

By small stature I meant less than 5.10 feet and weighing 150 lbs or so. From what I read, 6ft and 180 was litterly impossible.

He was 1,85. Fischer I mean; but I must admit I always thought he was higher than that, must be his very slim figure that makes him look higher.

The discussion was people who stood in and played as The Turk. Not Fischer. The Turk retired before he was born.

Really? Well, if I were to choose between killing jews and retiring I would always choose the latter, and I don't think I am in any way overemphasizing the problem. Some people don't deserve to live but I'm not going to be the headsman. So long.

Fisher was Jewish so his anti-semetism was very strange. I guess he was mad. I don't know if he would have been as crazy in another field of endeavour but I think he would have succeeded in whatever thing he chose to do.

As to the best player of all time, perhaps at some future date there will be a computer program to assess which player made the most 'best' moves and least mistakes in all their games. This at least would level the playing field.

Advance ... where you from-outer space I presume. Killing people in this discussion? I see you in several threads, always off topic, in fact so far off topic you need check into a looney bin.

advance just got burned!

For me it is an easy pick. The top 3 of all time looks like this:

1. Kasparov.

2. Alekhine.

3. Lasker.

If you are trying to state that Fischer is somehow greater than the three players I mentioned in my earlier post - Kasparov, Alekhine and Lasker - then yes, you would have to say more. A lot more. Tremendously much.

Alekhine wasn't even the best of his own generation.  Capablanca and Lasker were far better than Alekhine during his early years (1913-1926).  Alekhine was only #1 during the late 20's/ early 1930's.  Then, Botvinnik was better from the late 1930's through the 40's.  So, Alekhine was probably in the top 10 of all-time, but certainly not #2.   My top 12 are:  1. Fischer  2. Kasparov  3. Carlsen  4. Morphy  5. Lasker  6. Capablanca  7. Karpov  8. Botvinnik  9. Alekhine  10. Kramnik  11. Anand  12. Euwe.   Maybe this video will shed some light on the situation.  It shows a graph of the ratings of the top 10 chess players, going all the way back to the early 1800's.  

The History of the Top Chess Players Over Time