Martin vs the world analysis thread #4

11... e5 12. Be6+ Bxe6 13. dxe6 Rf6 14. Bxc5

Tug, you're rushing things.  Drawing #279 is incorrect.  Can't follow the #280 logic, either.

Ok, you left out the moves listed on #279 of 10. e6  fxe6.

You're right, it's not forced. After 9. e5 Nh7 10. e6 fxe6 11. Qc2 maybe black can play 11...g5, but I haven't looked at this in detail yet. Black is up a pawn and I think 12. Be4 is met by 12...Nf6.

After 9. e5 Nh7 10. e6 fxe6 11. Qc2 even if black plays 11...Bf5 I think it's fine for black. 12. Qb3 can be met by 12...b6 I think. Now 13. Na4 can probably be met by 13...Ba5+.

9. e5 Nh7 10. e6 fxe6 11. Qc2 Bf5 12. Qb3 b6 13. Bf3 can probably be met by 13...Ng5.

9. e5 Nh7 10. e6 fxe6 11. Qd3 Bf5 12. Be4 can probably be met by 12...Ng5 (or maybe even 12...Nf6, but let's say black plays 12...Ng5). The threat is ...Nxe4 and the bishop on e4 is pinned to the queen. 13. Bxf5 exf5 is simply bad for white, since black is up a pawn and 13. dxe6 is met by 13...Nxe4 I think.

quote- "What's the alternative if we do decide e5 isn't good? Nf3 is bad, I think I'm back to Kf1."

9. Qd2 is a (possibly slightly passive) alternative. It doesn't lose material, it doesn't give black free checks and it doesn't expose our king as far as I'm aware.

I haven't looked at these lines in detail. I'll probably do that later.

I didn't like 9. Qd2 because of Bb4, which hard pins the knight. e4 becomes critically weak now. We'd probably have to play f3, take Bh4+ on the chin, and we go from there. But in that case, we might as well just play Kf1 now and avoid the check.

9. Qc2 might be ok, I can't remember if there was a problem with that but I'll take a look at that after dinner.

Qc2 does do a couple of things... it prepares e5/e6 because we'd have Qxg6 in some of the problematic lines. It also protects e4, and prepares a queenside castle which gives us Bxc5 is some lines.

Yeah this is worth a deeper look. Don't move yet Ry, please.

I think we can handle b5, we just play e5 and we're hitting him first.

Also I think 9. e5 Nh7 10. e6 fxe6 11. Bd3 can be met by 11...g5. If 12. Qc2 then simply 12...Nf6. Black is up a pawn and has nothing to complain about.

And 9. e5 Nh7 10. e6 fxe6 11. Be4 can be defended with 11...Rf6 I think.

Against 9. e5 Nh7 10. e6 fxe6 11. Bc2 I think black can play 11...g5 12. Qd3 Bf5 and 13. Ne4 is met by 13...Ba5+

Against 9. e5 Nh7 10. e6 fxe6 11. Bc2 g5 12. dxe6 I think 12...Rf6 should work. E.g. 13. Qd3 Nf8 and black defends against the checkmate threat and will win the e6-pawn.

Tug, I'm looking at 9. Qc2  too…  See if it has any potential.  I gave up on Nf3 after reviewing old lines already mentioned.

One feeling I get… Martin's next move will probably seem tame to us, and we'll wonder why he didn't go for the jugular on stuff we've considered.

I honestly don't mind the pin after 9. Qd2 Bb4. As I've mentioned earlier, the move I have in mind here is 10. Bd3 and e4 is not really weak anymore now. Black will have to deal with the hanging pawn on h6. In the meantime we are ready to play 0-0-0 and f3 and after f3 the e4-pawn will definitely not be weak anymore.

And then we can do a pawn storm on the kingside. Black's bishop might not actually be that great on b4. If he wants to do a pawn storm on the queenside then he will probably have to move the b4-bishop at some point (it's in the way of his b-pawn). Or if he wants to defend on the kingside with his bishop then he'll have to teleport it back. So I don't think it matters too much that we wasted a move with 10. Bd3.

ChessPro, I like that one two punch, and especially the subtle micro-moves that shift the whole array of ideas.

Since 9. e5 scares me as sending things into "no return orbit," and 9. Nf3 just doesn't go — not enough "teeth" — that leaves me with:

Vote Qd2.

It's all good:

• we're posing a threat (Bxh6)
• a castling option is created (0-0-0)
• b5 menacing pawn march averted
• the next move afterward is icing on the cake (Bd3)
• there are no surprises immediately following
• our position is compact and drum tight

I might be wrong to assume Qd2 is bad. If we're going queenside then perhaps it's ok. 

I'm not gonna lie, I'm getting burnout today, I've spent a lot more time studying this game than I intended, and while we've made progress, we're nowhere near ready to move yet. 

Options seem to be e5, Qd2, Qc2 or Kf1, with the latter only being playable if there are problems with all the others. If we haven't moved by the morning, I'll take another look. 

By the way, we're into 3+ days now, let's not issue Martin with any more time warnings please, I think he's had two and a third is a loss, and I will be really annoyed if I've put all this analysis into a game we win by timeout, to the point I won't bother next time. I don't care if we make moves I don't approve of, this is a team, but I do care about wasting my time. I do not want to win by timeout.

I just checked the rules for this game, page 1, and there is no mention of a limit on time warnings.  Maybe on previous games, but not this one.

You just have to move within 24 hours when given a warning at some point on your last day of normal time.  So, Martin is in complete compliance, and there are no "strikes" against him.

If that's true then time warnings don't matter, it's then on Martin to move with 24 hours, and if he doesn't I'll blame him for my wasted time and not the person who issued the time warning!

It would suck though if the game ends in timeout, for either side.

In case we make a move soon, I'll vote for 9. Qd2. While 9. e5 definitely looks interesting, I can't get it to work for white. If we play 9. e5 then we pretty much have to play 10. e6 and it seems like we always lose a pawn or black gets a free check. I've mentioned lines (such as those in post #286 and #283) where black gets a better position when I tried to find the best moves for white (or where the alternative moves for white have been investigated in even earlier posts and turned out to be bad for white).

And I'm also getting burnout. It kind of felt like a chore to analyze the position. I didn't feel like analyzing the position and that's why I started looking at the position so late this move. And it took much longer than anticipated to analyze the position. Just finding a decent move that doesn't have massive drawbacks is surprisingly difficult in this position.

I might look at 9. Qc2 tomorrow if I feel like it and I have time.

ChessPro, the reason our Double Event Variant game leads to analysis burnout is because binds are near impossible to create.

In normal chess, when a bind is spotted, it becomes the crux of the analysis.  You know where to focus your attention.  Lines get ruled out much more quickly, and you are able to move on with confidence.

Probably the reason why chess in its current form has withstood the test of time.

I am very much against Qd2, because I don't feel like it addresses ...b5 at all.

Also who's to say Martin won't play ...Ba5 instead of Bb4?

I think we can handle b5 after Qd2, let me take a quick look.

Also, Ba5 is no better than Bb4, it's the same threat except he can't follow up with Qa5.