Chess960 Starting Position ID

Blackknight2010

Hello,

In playing correspondance games, it would be nice to know the number of the starting position.  Is this not currently being provided or am I missing it somewhere.

Thanks.

Shakaali

So, there exists a standardised enumbering of the starting positions? I was completely unaware of that. By which organisation has this been defined and how to findout the number for a particular position?

furtiveking

You can find a list of the various positions on this page: http://frcec.chess960.info/FRC-StartingPositions.htm . But as for finding out which is your game, the site doesn't tell you that, though maybe it should?

Shakaali

Ok, thanks! Yes, I agree that it would be nice feature to know the code if such a standard exists.

Blackknight2010

It would make post game computer analysis much easier, as there is no easy way to determine starting position as it is now.  I wouldn't think this feature would be terribly difficult to add.  Cassia's 960 website does post starting position id#.

justjoshin

you could grab the FEN string I guess.

bemweeks

You can use Google to translate start positions into the corresponding ID. For example, if you search on 'BBQNNRKR' you'll see without even clicking through the results that it's position 0. On top of returning pages that are lists of all start positions, the search will turn up various odds and ends on chess960.

ghostofmaroczy
bemweeks wrote:

You can use Google to translate start positions into the corresponding ID. For example, if you search on 'BBQNNRKR' you'll see without even clicking through the results that it's position 0. On top of returning pages that are lists of all start positions, the search will turn up various odds and ends on chess960.


Position 0? The positions are numbered 0-959?

Loomis

The starting position for a chess 960 game is given as a FEN string in the PGN.

bemweeks

ghostofmaroczy: 'Position 0? The positions are numbered 0-959?'

Yes, that's right. I mentioned the reason in a recent post on my C960 blog...

DGT960 Chess Clock
http://chess960frc.blogspot.com/2010/07/dgt960-chess-clock.html

...The DGT960 clock also does conversion of the start position (as it looks in FEN) to its numeric ID.

bobo1980
ghostofmaroczy wrote:
bemweeks wrote:

You can use Google to translate start positions into the corresponding ID. For example, if you search on 'BBQNNRKR' you'll see without even clicking through the results that it's position 0. On top of returning pages that are lists of all start positions, the search will turn up various odds and ends on chess960.


Position 0? The positions are numbered 0-959?


bobo1980

i dont understand :(

please for dumies,how will i start?

ochestnut

A simple program to translate FRC-chess960 start position IDs is available for free download at:

http://www.castlelong.com/download/welcome.shtml

The program runs only on Windows. The program is entirely safe, and a simple file delete will completely remove it from your system (nothing even written to the Registry).

pompom
Saxon01 wrote:

I found this chess 960 positions link yesterday. A nice simple html file which you can open and then do a Ctrl+F to search on the white piece string.


So position #518 is the standard starting position?  I didn't know that was one of the 960 starting positions.

furtiveking
pompom wrote:
Saxon01 wrote:

I found this chess 960 positions link yesterday. A nice simple html file which you can open and then do a Ctrl+F to search on the white piece string.


So position #518 is the standard starting position?  I didn't know that was one of the 960 starting positions.


Yes, it is. If you exclude it, than the starting position isn't truly random, as the standard position does fall within the rules of 960.

pompom
kramakintews wrote:
furtiveking wrote:
pompom wrote:
Saxon01 wrote:

I found this chess 960 positions link yesterday. A nice simple html file which you can open and then do a Ctrl+F to search on the white piece string.


So position #518 is the standard starting position?  I didn't know that was one of the 960 starting positions.


Yes, it is. If you exclude it, than the starting position isn't truly random, as the standard position does fall within the rules of 960.


If that bothers you, just think of it as having the King Bishops on the Queenside, same for the Knights and Rooks


And in order to castle kingside, you would have to move the king on e1 to g1 and the rook on a1 to f1.  Same for castling queenside.

bemweeks

'And in order to castle kingside, you would have to move the king on e1 to g1 and the rook on a1 to f1.'

A Rook on a1 can never be used for Kingside castling (aka h-side castling, O-O). If the King starts on e1, there must be a Rook on f1, g1, or h1, and only that Rook can be used for castling O-O. - Mark

pattrik
bemweeks wrote:

'And in order to castle kingside, you would have to move the king on e1 to g1 and the rook on a1 to f1.'

A Rook on a1 can never be used for Kingside castling (aka h-side castling, O-O). If the King starts on e1, there must be a Rook on f1, g1, or h1, and only that Rook can be used for castling O-O. - Mark


So it's the same for the queenside, right? If the king is on d1 then the rook has to be on a1, b1 or c1???

rooperi
pattrik wrote:
bemweeks wrote:

'And in order to castle kingside, you would have to move the king on e1 to g1 and the rook on a1 to f1.'

A Rook on a1 can never be used for Kingside castling (aka h-side castling, O-O). If the King starts on e1, there must be a Rook on f1, g1, or h1, and only that Rook can be used for castling O-O. - Mark


So it's the same for the queenside, right? If the king is on d1 then the rook has to be on a1, b1 or c1???


How certain are you guys about this?

I think if you have (eg) Rooks on h and g files, and the king anywhere from a-f, you can castle Q-side with the g Rook.

If you have Rooks on a and b files, and the King anywhere, you can castle K-side with the b Rook.

There should be no setup which excludes castling on both sides.

Shakaali
pattrik wrote:

So it's the same for the queenside, right? If the king is on d1 then the rook has to be on a1, b1 or c1???


Right - the king always starts between the rooks and bishops also start on different coloured squares.