[Rant] The Chess960 forum has been on a Downward Spiral.

DOWNWARD SPIRAL DOWNWARD SPIRAL DOWNWARD SPIRAL DOWNWARD SPIRAL

Please note:

It is not my intention to stir up shit and cause drama.

It is not my intention to ‘betray’ anyone or to target any particular individuals.

It is not in my nature to ‘turn my back’ on people.

All I ask is that you listen. Take it as you see it, and move on.

I'm doing this because I care about the condition of this forum.

It’s in my nature that I expect the best of people on this forum. It’s my belief that all of you who frequent the Chess960 forum are good-hearted people who bear no ill will to anyone whatsoever. Those of you who I’ve come to know over the past six months have been great acquaintances who I’ve enjoyed keeping in touch with. Last year, I did things that a few years ago I never thought I would be doing: I helped a small community on Steam with a chess game, whose rulebook was grossly outdated and obfuscated; I managed to share and discuss with other people a common interest, which I had possessed for a while, but never really had the voice to talk about it; best of all, someone put their business on the line by asking me to write a publicity piece promoting their variant of chess, and on top of that, I was compensated for it. As you read this you may find none of what I have said to be particularly special, but let me tell you, that as someone who has repeatedly acted incredibly stupid, and as someone who has done some pretty stupid stuff on the web in the past, last year was a year of change.

HOWEVER.

Enough of this blogging crap and enough of the yes-man persona. The Chess960 forum is on a downward spiral, and there are very few people with eyes to see and ears to hear to shout about it. There’s W_A_R_L_O_R_D, but let’s be real here: the Final Wars dev has probably rustled your jimmies so hard that most of you have either blocked him, or you don’t take him seriously, instead choosing to listen to what he says then immediately discard his opinion. After all, he’s just a big old meanie who ruins our fun, and on principle, we should ignore him, right?

Or maybe he’s just a nutter talking to no-one in particular. After all, with no ears to hear him, he’s talking to a brick wall.

But a broken clock is right twice a day, they say. And isn’t it funny, how the trending topic of the 960 forum has changed over time? Let’s take a look at the current 19 active threads on the first page (00:15 17/01/18).

• 2 threads on ‘Eagle chess’
• 2 threads on musketeer chess
• 1 thread on ‘Hallway chess’
• 1 thread on ‘Event Chess’
• 4 threads on Bulldog chess (1 thread about a 4-player variant)
• 7 threads about infinite chess (specifically, ‘chess on an infinite plane’)
• A thread detailing the top players of a series of play-by-forum games
• A thread asking about the advantage that White gains in certain Chess960 positions.

And if you think, ‘It’s the first page, it’s not so bad when dead threads drop quickly, and what’s more you looked during an inactive time,’ this shit goes back SEVENTEEN PAGES. Of the 19 active threads, 16 of them are either concerned about Bulldog chess, a new variant that’s just popped up, a variant inspired by bulldog chess, infinite chess, or musketeer chess. I can excuse the ‘new pieces’ thread because I assume that Dr. Haddad has been given pardon by the moderators to post an occasional thread promoting his variant. I understand that in the past, he may have not had permission to post threads concerning his products, and as a result was violating ToS; I imagine that this has been sorted by now.

The rest, however…

Let’s preface this with a rule that must be followed by any member not participating in a play-by-forum thread: Do not post comments about an active game on any website or public forum. In short – if it’s a play-by-forum thread, you can’t post in it. That is not to say that the outlined rules are unfair. On the contrary, they’re entirely fair, save for the point above – it inadvertently suppresses not only the flow of content in the threads, but also on the forum itself.

Let’s remind ourselves that where this kind of content is being directed to is a public internet forum. You can’t just post a thread and expect outsiders to comply with your guidelines. That goes directly against the primary function of a forum. It’s a forum, not an e-mail list. You wouldn’t go to, say, /r/chessvariants, make a thread and say ‘such and such users: you can’t post in here because of XYZ.’ You hold no authority over what others can and cannot post.

What makes a thread popular? What actually gives a thread the right to be on page 1? That’s where the people come in – by posting in a thread, you unconsciously give that thread the privilege of being seen by users of that forum, whether they be members of the larger community or anonymous browsers. Whether it’s a one-sentence response, a shitpost, whether the content of your comment is positive/negative towards the subject, you give it the right. Chess moves are weightless comments that add nothing meaningful to the conversation other than to bloat the thread, and each move also bumps the thread back up to page 1. It’s a public forum, not ‘Chess Variant Lovers Circlejerk.’ By suppressing conversation with this one simple rule, the forum has slowly lost its initial purpose – to discuss Chess960 and other variants. So now, the only people that regularly post are those who participate in these play-by-forum threads.

Now, let’s do some maths, just to give you an idea of how bad things really are.

• 1 Eagle chess game
• 1 Event chess game
• 1 musketeer chess game
• 1 Hallway chess game
• 3 Bulldog chess games
• 4 infinite chess games.

Actually, how about I stretch the boundaries a little further, to page 2…

• 3 more infinite chess games
• Another musketeer chess game (which I explicitly stated that ‘typically these thread prohibit people from making comments but for this game your comments are encouraged’ i.e. that the above rule did not apply and yet STILL barely anyone made a comment about the game)
• Another Event chess game.

So, 11/19 = 0.5789, or 57.9%.

And if you want to add the other threads on page 2: it’s almost 50%.

What does that percentage really mean? It means that, at any given time of the day, almost two thirds of the threads on the first page put the forum in gridlock—you ‘can’t post in them.’ And the only game that could be posted in received little to no replies from observers.

Now I know you might be thinking, ‘But Ebinola, trying to get people to test your variant and giving it free publicity is extremely difficult in this day and age, and play-by-forum games are the only way to do these things.’ I’m not denying that. From experience I know that many people IRL aren’t too happy at the prospect of trying a variation of chess. Online it is far easier to draw out the curiosity of individuals. A variant online is seen not as a board and pieces but as an idea. What’s the point of showing off a variant if you’re not going to play it?

But can’t you see? Your love of chess variant games has poisoned the forum. Nowadays, no-one has the room to post original content in the forums because eventually the first page will be swamped with play-by-forum games which, need I remind you, cannot be posted in. The games restrict the differing amount of content that can appear on the first page at any one time. And if you seriously think anyone is going to look past the first page for other threads – ask yourself, who really bothers to look past the first page on Google?  Old threads don’t mean shit. Google results past the first page don’t mean shit. Spam without intent to spam is still spam. And believe me when I say that I know what spam looks like.

Do you know why I decided to stop posting in my ‘Musketeer Chess – Series 2’ thread? It was because I had become part of the problem. I wholeheartedly take responsibility for suggesting a series of playtest games, but I posted them in a group for a reason – not only were most of the frequent posters on the forum a member of said group; were the games to be played there, it would alleviate the damage done. I was not paid to perpetuate the playtest games, nor have I been paid to shill musketeer chess in general, as someone might suggest.

How naive I was to think that that wouldn’t go unexploited.

No, no, I had to post it in the forums. Any publicity is good publicity. In fact, the more publicity, the better. But publicity doesn’t save you from your reputation and PR, no matter who you are. Donald Trump is one of the most public figures in recent history, and his reputation is extremely rocky. Some love him, some hate him; some want to storm into the White House and stick C-4 where the sun doesn’t shine.

Around 7 or so years ago, a certain television show gathered an… unusual audience on the anonymous imageboard website, 4chan. Content of this television show was posted to every board (forum) in such high frequencies for over a couple of years (note that content on imageboards is often shared through images), and anons were so angered by the amount of spamming that moot actually had to create a board dedicated solely to the show. They got what they wanted, but at the terrible price of severely damaging the fanbase’s reputation. To this day, it’s still referred to as a ‘containment board.’

I’m not about publicity. I’m about reputation; the reputation that I’m trying to restore. And the forum’s reputation has gone to utter shit.

If the above is what you want, seriously take a moment to consider the consequences. Chess.com does not have dedicated forums for chess variants for no other reason than the fact that it is a chess website. It’s not a chess variant website, so catering to people like us is not a high priority on their agenda and it never will be, because we will never be the hump of the bell curve. Chess variants have never been mainstream; that’s why they bring a community like ourselves together – we show interest in things that are off the beaten path. We love the obscure, the mysterious, the uncharted waters; but if ultimately the goal of these play-by-forum threads is to show chess.com staff that we need more space, it will not come without a price. There’s no such thing as a free lunch.

Up until now, I’ve ranted about the problem. As to the solution: I wouldn’t be ranting about this otherwise if I didn’t have one. If you’ve been influenced by any of what I’ve said in any way; if you believe that we can heal the reputation of our little corner on this great website; if you believe that change is necessary; then you will agree when I say that the first step to recovery is to admit there is a publicity problem.

You’ve got a game, and you want the world to know about it. You reserve the right to tell people about it. However, publicity is like a drug – people become addicted to it when others begin to play their variant. It gives you, the creator, a sense of pride and power. If at least one person plays it, you go out looking for more people. As I said before, publicity can be damaging to reputation, and remember that it’s not just your group of internet friends that you’re showing this game off to.

Before making a thread in the forums about your variant (a thread of any kind), you should really get some results in private first. Ask about in PMs, describe it in appropriate groups out of the way of forums, hell, even make a group and tell people about it in PMs. Instead of conducting games in threads, why not ask if the other person would be interested in doing some playtesting in PMs? And I know it's hard, but it’s also worth a shot trying to get people to play OTB, if you can. After you get some results, take another look at your game and evaluate whether or not it’s a solid game. Have you got the foundations to make it really stand out?

If Capablanca chess was to be created today, you might point out that both players have a weak i-pawn, a positional flaw. That right there is a glaring flaw that will prevent it from being a truly great game.

Chess variants aren’t supposed to be created on the fly and tested right away in play-by-forum games like what we’ve seen. They’re a lot like writing – and if my English teacher taught me anything, it’s that great writing is 80% re-writing and 20% publishing. Your first draft will never be the finished product, and I think it’s better to experiment with your first draft in discreet, then present it at a later stage, rather than release early, release often.

As for the play-by-forum threads themselves – I have a great solution that can make them just as public but makes things far less congested. About a week ago, a guy called Asher Hurowitz approached me in PMs asking if I would be willing to join his website, a small forum dedicated to chess variants. Not only does it have a forum dedicated to play-by-forum games, it also has caught the attention of some big names in the chess variant world, such as Rick Knowlton of ancientchess.com, Jean-Louis Cazeaux, the chess historian, and Ed Trice, the creator of Gothic chess! This is, in my opinion, the most ideal home for play-by-forum games of any kind, and has the potential to become a hub for testing and experimenting chess variants should it expand in the future.

To conclude, I must restate again that this is not me trying to persecute anyone. This is me telling you that there’s a problem and that there’s a simple solution to said problem. I wouldn’t be very honest with you all otherwise if I had kept this to myself forever.

If you’ve read to the very end, and you still trust me as you have done in the past, you’ll take into consideration what I’ve said.

If, however, you disagree with what I’ve said… I ask that you take the diplomatic approach: block me, and say nothing.

I refer you to the "Most Recent" window that is located on your right.

That window is visible to every single person on every single forum on this website.

If a group of people are constantly bumping a topic, then it will "hang" in that window for a long time.

Every single person on the forums, no matter what forum they are using sees that little window.

I always see the same people and the same topics in that little window now.

That little window may be subjected to constant abuse, it may be used for promotions.

I call that little window, the ADVERTISING WINDOW.

That is the reason why the Chess960 forum looks like it does.

That is the reason why this has been happening on this forum for over a year.

It is not about playing games, it is about:

Making a Market.

Bump.

You must understand @hitthepin that I have no problem with fun, I have a problem with this forum's reputation the way it is right now. It's seriously not good.

Publicity is a drug.

People are addicted to publicity.

Discussion is being hanged due to people's addictions with publicity.

For a forum that's titled 'Chess960 and Other Variants', there's very little discussion of Chess960, crazyhouse, bughouse, KOTH, or 4-player chess. But there is quite a large discussion about 'Other Variants.'

You see, a lot of people here have become the opposite of what they see as the chess audience. The chess audience hates altering the game. When we make massive changes to the game like we see in musketeer chess, infinite chess, bulldog chess etc. people tend to go absolutely mental.

However, the chess variant audience hates the exact opposite - too little changes to the game.

By all means, I acknowledge the purpose of these threads and the good that they can do for one's own variant. They maximise publicity... While they absent-mindedly cripple reputation. Which is why I've offered a solution to the problem which, in an ideal world, you should have no qualms about; in an ideal world, people would owe up to the fact there is a problem and try the solution.

Might I ask - who is 'we?' And does this we own the forum? Do they have authority over what one can and cannot post?

I hope this we recognises that this is not a matter of a few individuals, but a matter of the forum - a matter of the group.

Hello! I'm Asher Hurowitz the guy who started the dedicated chess variant forum, and I would love it if you guys would join, it's free and post by post game friendly! 

Hope to see you there! 

https://chessvariantforum.createaforum.com/index.php

A reminder.

Anyone who is reading this and believes that this thread is directly targeted at them: it's not, believe me.

At the end of the day, I will not treat any of you differently from how I have treated you in the past.

However, if you take this seriously, whether you support me or not, you would read the entire OP.

There is a young boy that posted a topic on this forum called:

I am a fan of chess.

You may have to scroll to the foot of page 1 to see it.

You may even have to go to page 2, it may already have been forced off the first page.

Everybody on this forum ignored him, a young boy.

He was not talking about extra pieces.

Shame on all of you.

@ElephantHistorian

I am pleased to meet you.

I wish you nothing but success.

There are quite a few people on this forum that dig playing.

I am sure that they will be interested in playing on your dedicated forum for variants.

Sadly there are also people here that are trying to create a market off the back of the chess.com website.

Please feel free to create topics to promote your forum, there is nothing wrong with that, I will support it.

See, this is what I'm getting at.

The 960 forum is a public forum, one that can be accessed by over 20 million users, plus anonymous browsers.

That's a lot of publicity, but stave off of the publicity for a second.

These problematic threads don't treat this as a public forum. They treat it as an e-mail list, a completely different format.

These threads are not compatible with a forum like this, at all. They treat the subject of 'Chess960 and Other Variants' as 'Correspondence Central.'

BUT, ElephantHistorian's site is different. It has a forum that is DEDICATED to correspondence games. 

This site has ALL the room you could have ever wanted.

So, for what reason would one ever choose to stay here?

That really gets my noggin jogging... 🤔

I do have to seriously wonder if people are indeed using this forum for sake of advertising and marketing as @W_A_R_L_O_R_D has claimed. From the circumstances, you've every right to be suspicious.

Now, I'm not going to say whether I believe this is true or not, I'm going to stay neutral until more evidence appears concerning it.

But if it turns out that's the case, I would be incredibly disappointed in those who are behind it. I find it to be an extremely unethical business practice.

People sometimes come to this forum, they post, they are ignored, they never come back.

Unless of course if the game that they are interested in uses extra pieces, then they are welcomed.

I have been using this forum for years, all the long time users of this forum are gone now.

There are only 4 of us left, 2 hardly logon anymore, maybe once a week or less now. 

It is some kind of promotion, whatever that may be.

It may just be over-enthusiastic promotion of 2 particular games.

But it is systematic and regular, just look at the most recent window.

But that may have already changed now.

Unwanted attention.

@W_A_R_L_O_R_D and @Ebinola, thanks so much for the support!

When I created the chess variant forum, I realized that the chess variant community shouldn't be piggybacking off of a general chess forum, as A: this creates fragmented groups that are unaware of each other and B: the forum doesn't want to cater to our needs. On my forum you can both discuss and play chess variants (plus so much more) without that annoying single feed!

In my eyes, there are two types of chess variants. Variants like Bughouse and Chess960, which are fun and worth discussing anyhow, but are more mainstream and use a chess set and ruleset, and stuff like Makruk and Xiangqi. This forum should be mainly for the former and mine mainly for the latter. (However, I still classify the more mainstream variants as variants and therefore within the general bounds of the forum.)

Anyone who wants to promote their variant: HEAD ON OVER TO MY SITE YOU ARE WELCOME THERE!

Finally, someone gets it. That's a breath of fresh air.

Those of you who are concerned with the topic of this thread: you have been presented with a choice.

Will you move to this other forum, specifically catered to you?

Or will you let the state of this forum deteriorate even more, until there's nothing left?

If you choose the latter; if you desire a 'containment board' of your own; I urge you to please, PLEASE, seriously consider the repercussions that will occur.

I think I'm done here. The choice is yours.

I would not agree with everything that you said.

On this forum people should be able to discuss any variant.

But playing the same few variants on a public forum is a problem.

But constantly discussing extra pieces and nothing else on a public forum is a problem.

On this forum it is almost like the RULES are an after thought, like who cares really.

The benefit of your forum is that people can do both, discuss or play, but they have separate (I think, please correct me if I am wrong) sections for that, so they are not trying to mix oil and water.

I think it kinda strange actually, the mainstream chess players on this website are not allowed to play CHESS games on the forums.

I have had a quick look at your forum.

I have saved the link and will look closely, but not tonight, kinda tired man.

I may be wrong about this, I have not had a real close look at your setup....

On this forum I have seen a lot of games.

I followed @McGoohan and @Cobra91 playing a trippy variant on a 8x8 board, a derivative of Refusal Chess.

I soon lost track, because there were no diagrams, I started making diagrams for them...

This is important, most people will not have a say 10x8 board at home, so how can they play.

Most people looking will want to see diagrams.

You need diagrams man, not sure if you do.

Tired, now. 

I'm not sure what's the key point of your thread. How is this related to chess variants? Is the key point that the forum has become more popular recently?😯