Why isnt chess960 getting popular in pro level?

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Avatar of V_Eric

Hi everyone,

Lately i have played chess960, and i found the game is interesting and requires more creativity than regular chess. No opening memorization needed. Just rely on our creativity during the game, especially the opening & middle game.

I think in modern chess, its hard to find grandmaster with pure creativity since the role of engines is getting dominant during their training session. Regular chess now is more like a battle of chess engines, and the reliance on memorization of opening is increase significantly nowadays. With chess960, at least the influence of chess enginess could be minimized.

What confusing me is the fact that in the pro level, chess960 seems stuck in popularity. Is it because pro players feel more comfort if they can prepare their games after consults with several engines? Kasparov once said that chess960 might preferable for people who lazy to prepare themselves, but for me it sounded he felt uncomfort with the uncertainty in chess960, and prefer the lesser risk offered in the regular chess.

Avatar of GIex

The game is OK, but it's not profitable so there are no pros. To play it professionally would mean to both spend a decent amount of time competing and studying it and also to have a tangible profit. However, they are both hardly possible. There are few ways for preparation and also few competitive events, so a would-be chess960 professional would most of the time be lacking work and also be deprived of improvement possibilities, and would likely quit for another job. Also, the starting positions are too unbalanced so it's rather a matter of luck than of skill, which makes one's performance inconsistent, which in turn gets in the way of profit. But the main reason is that there's too few popularity for that game, and consequently there's no media interest (that could have generated money), no sponsor support, no income from viewers, etc. in comparison to other sports.

Avatar of glider1001

Agree with Glex, the main problem is money it is that simple. Chess960 would need a philanthropist to promote it and there are two examples of those - the Mainz competition in the first decade of the twenty first century that went broke with the first global financial crisis, then we have the Sinquefield cup that promoted Chess960 but has since decided to concentrate on Chess to build the power and influence of the St Louis Chess club.

What Chess960 needs now is for people to play it where ever they can, online or in clubs. One day critical mass will build. It would be wonderful if one day Nakamura came to play Chess960 online here at Chess.com. That would help a lot because he could promote it (he already supports it) without the financial overhead.

If you want a compilation of almost every elite game of Chess960 ever played in real competition, here is the database:

http://chess960jungle.blogspot.com.au/2014/02/chess960-database-complete-games-2001.html

It includes such luminaries as Nakamura, Anand, Aronian and so on.

Avatar of Diakonia

Vhess 960 isnt popular with the pros because you already have a game that is fun, and hasnt been solved.  Every game is something new, and something to learn.  

Avatar of final_wars

money talks, everything else walks.

I worked with a GM for 3 months, we discussed Fischer Random many times.

He said that the main reason GMs don't like Fischer Random, apart from the lack of money, is that the setups favour White a lot more than the Classical setup.

The GMs estimate was that about 10% of the setups are either dead lost or very unfavourable for black. Mainly due to the Bishops, long range minor unit, you can develop and attack in one move in some setups.

So the GMs would have to play a lot of Fischer Random Blitz online to get really used to it, then they would have to invest a lot of time in home preparation, then they would be ready.

Oh yeah, who is going to pay for all this effort?

Need regular big tournaments, big prizes, sponsorships, all that crap.

Avatar of CJ_P

I don't know about the 10% sais above but Krammnik did say that some position lead to very direct play from move 1.

Everything is defended in the classical set up. Not true for 960. Some times white is attacking a severely weak side of the board on the first move, and blacks defenses leave him with god-awful consessions. Now for us amatuers, that's not so bad. Imagine a Carlsen or Karpov squeezing that. Maybe a Kasparov or Nakamura throwing tactics at it. Fun for the spectators. Not for the players

Avatar of glider1001
final_wars wrote:

The GMs estimate was that about 10% of the setups are either dead lost or very unfavourable for black.

Good point on home preparation. 10% is too high in my opinion but never-the-less there would be home preparation needed to develop black defensive theory within that small group of starts (50 or so). We did a small computer assisted study of critical starts in Chess960 here:

http://chess960jungle.blogspot.com.au/2012/07/fischer-bronstein-chess960-research.html

and didn't find one where black is lost from move one, but did find a few where black needs to know how to defend. So in Chess960, there is going to have to be home preparation at the elite level I'd say and even some memorization!

Never-the-less, just look at Mainz 2000-2010. Lot's of elite Chess960 there and there was great positivity. Other than money, it boils down to attitude. Nakamura and Aronian have positive attitudes to Chess960.

The other factor is the massive industry around Chess opening theory and the massive amount of time GM's have invested in that. Neither the industry or the GM's are prepared to give up that investment.

The crazy thing is that nobody has to give up anything - because Chess960 and Chess can coexist together quite happily.

Avatar of V_Eric

Thanks guys for the great responses :)

Ya i never thought about such an money investment issues in  chess opening industry, and about the probability of white has an edge to black in such random games. Many thanks for glider1001 for the games' compilation too.

But ya, i still think chess960 is great to bring us back to the good old times, when engines' influence was still insignificant :P