Competitions and Elite Teams

Now please this is just my opinion which if you disagree is fine but I am entitled to my own opinion

I have noticed more and more of these so called "elite teams" that openly refuse anyone below a certain rating. Of course this is fine but I have to say when they join competitions against regular teams this seems massively unfair.

Of course as a group admin you are entitled to create the group that you want but what chance does a mainstream group have against a team with minimum rating eg 1800?

Donna, why would a mainstream group/team choose to accept such a challenge/match ?  

Donna, I see where you're coming from. But as suggested by Reb it's up to any team receiving a challenge to decide whether to accept or not. Also, I think it's only really an issue in open-ended ratings matches, which I  - speaking as  LEGION - usually tend to avoid.

@jjldogg: as I understand it, where one is a member of both the challenger and the challengee then one is precluded from playing for either.

I think that these teams should make it clear that they are "elite" and to what extend. I play quite some team matches with my 1200 rating, and I can understand that for 2400 rated players I am not doing a good deal to their team. In the vote chess I might learn something, but what would a 2400-player care?

Some will say "it's only a game" and allow me to play. Others say "it is also my pride" and don't allow me to join in. I'm fine with that, as long as it is clear what the rules are.

Yes, we don't make a chance against elite-teams. But often small teams do not make a chance against big teams either.

These teams should be easy enough to identify by looking at the figures, so (as Fantasto suggested), only accept closed-rating team matches against such teams. I imagine that'd resolve the issue.

I know. The Chess Club has done that 2 one of my friends in the past. That's why I am boycotting them.

 Before The Chess Club made a rule, my friend wanted to join, was declined and asked for an answer. The group owner declined to answer and made a rating rule the very next day. I don't know all the details, but this is what i was told. It seems cruel.

Sometimes you have no option than to accept the challenge for instance for competitions like the TM Championship. if you do not accept the challenge then you default. In an ideal world there should be different competitions for inclusive groups and elite groups.

Corinna

 while respecting this point of view, I wondering about the mechanics, i.e., when, and to whom should those teams make it clear that they are "elite"? I'm interested, because I got rather a shock when someone who will remain nameless described my group LEGION as elite! The thought just hadn't occurred to me!

Maybe TM league matches aren't intended for mainstream groups. Maybe organize a league with only teams with a wide distribution of playes.

My apologies for the silence here by me.

It IS with regards to competitions such as TM League and TM Championship.

Within such competitions teams have no choice but to accept the challenges or face *losing by forfeit*

Yes it is a survival of the fittest / strongest teams but when you openly say "We are not accepting teams with rating of less than .....  you are putting yourself at an advantage.

THIS in itself is not a problem as other non elite teams can CHOOSE whether to accept or decline the challenge.

What my suggestion would be is to disallow these "elite teams" from such competitions and deliberately set up competitions for elite teams only.

you would have to take that up with the league organizors. It is hardly a chess.com community issue.

As a current TD myself I AM already considering doing such a competition.

The reason I am bringing it to the attention of the community is because its THEM that have to play against such teams IN these said competitions.

My team has a fair split of players and I have just watched a smaller team than mine sign up to the same competition and they don't accept anyone under 1900  and they have openly said they will not issue a challenge to a team "because we are too good for you" wtf?

It seems that you can create non-exclusive leagues, in which only teams that have no entrance criteria related to ratings can play.  This is fair, as it would be in the original charter of such non-exclusive leagues. 

What seems unfair is doing the opposite -- excluding "elite" teams from the general competition, which in its own charter nowhere states conditions on what composition teams must have.  In other words, "elite" teams are just teams that happen to have some preference for who plays in them.  Consider this: what if there is no entrance criteria, but the teams decide to only enroll in league matches people above a certain rating?  What do you then do with such situations?  It's a losing battle to try to restrict that way...

Full disclosure:  I am on several "elite" teams, owing to my relatively high rating.

Some of the Super-Admins around here like to pretend they're little tin gods. I know this from personal experience, as an ex-member of The Chess Club.  On the other hand, what you were told and what really happened maybe 2 different things entirely; I'm sure The Chess Club isn't the only club here with restrictive rules for joining (ie you must have a certain rating & must have completed X number of games without any forfeits etc.) I don't have a problem with that, there's plenty of clubs here to choose from and in fact requiring members to have shown some degree of courtesy and responsibility sounds OK to me.

Well while some groups require these things (min rating etc) I would have thought common courtesy would be natural and needed for groups simply because it makes life a lot better.