Is Chess Something We Can Solve?

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Avatar of Optimissed
IJustCantEven wrote:
Is chess solvable without programming things to solve it for us? I am talking about making chess a totally obsolete, not mind intriguing game because the human mind has made it a routine to do certain moves in certain scenarios to beat your opponent every time. There are many games where you can solve them by looking at patterns and forcing inevitable moves to win every single time. Take the game Chopsticks, for example. If you do your moves right, the person who goes first always looses. I consider chess something that is complex in the way that there are multiple different ways to try to get as good as you can, but there is no way to predict your opponent’s mind. That’s what is so beautiful about the game. Making moves that will force a certian thinking for your opponents.
On the other hand, there are AI engines that will beat the most renowned chess masters, but that is different than humans beating it. The AI engine goes through all the scenarios of each move, the probability of the outcome of how the opponent will react to which feints and plays, all in a millisecond. The human mind may never work that way for a long time, so I wonder if there is a way for us to find a better, more intuitive way of playing that will always lead to an inevitable win.
I know there is a forum post on General Chess.com Discussion about chess never being able to be solved, but I didn’t really get it. So I put this post in my terms in hopes of a different approach. If yes to all of this, there is also the controversy of: If both players both mastered it, who would win? Anyways, thanks if you read all this

It isn't solveable by any method at the moment.

Avatar of Optimissed
MEGACHE3SE wrote:

ethan are you going to change your post or am I going to need to give more examples of completely false tygxc claims?

again, i dont care about 'rightness' or any sort of personal image. but your post gives false credence to tygxc and could lead to people wasting their time with his ideas.

How come you say you are something like a second year maths student and yet you spend your time trying to support the likes of dodgy maths teachers? Somehow it doesn't seem realistic. Why aren't you talking to your friends? Why are you the only one of your type, hanging out with a bunch of aged trolls on Chess.com instead of doing what's normal for you? In other words, you don't seem real.

You don't know enough to determine whether tygxc is right or wrong. You are about the level in university maths which I attained before I switched to philosophy.

Avatar of MEGACHE3SE
Optimissed wrote:
MEGACHE3SE wrote:

ethan are you going to change your post or am I going to need to give more examples of completely false tygxc claims?

again, i dont care about 'rightness' or any sort of personal image. but your post gives false credence to tygxc and could lead to people wasting their time with his ideas.

How come you say you are something like a second year maths student and yet you spend your time trying to support the likes of dodgy maths teachers? Somehow it doesn't seem realistic. Why aren't you talking to your friends? Why are you the only one of your type, hanging out with a bunch of aged trolls on Chess.com instead of doing what's normal for you? In other words, you don't seem real.

You don't know enough to determine whether tygxc is right or wrong. You are about the level in university maths which I attained before I switched to philosophy.

ah yes, optimissed. baseless insults instead of actual arguments. what's great is that I don't even need to warn people about you, your posts have so little substance to them people figure it out almost instantly on their own.

Considering how middle school math topics stumped you in other threads, it's a *little* hard to believe that your maths education is what you say, as well as the fact that not a single math topic that you've presented or interacted with has gone beyond the early highschool level. You might have studied maths into colelge, but that doesnt mean that I (and others) didnt learn your "university" maths in middle school or highschool.

I'm not even writing this out as a defense of myself. I feel no need to defend myself from you. I am writing this because I feel you yourself need to know how you are considered by myself and others.

Avatar of GYG
Ethan_Brollier wrote:

In conclusion, you come across as a troll who personally attacked a valued member of the community

Nobody thinks tygxc is a valued member of the community. In fact, given how prolifically he posts bullcrap, and the tendency for many of chess.com forum posts to come up as google results, he has likely stunted the growth of more young chess players than nearly anyone else on the website.

Avatar of GYG
Ethan_Brollier wrote:

First, I've seen valued members of the community leave permanently due to personal attacks like these over sustained periods of time. @pfren comes to mind

Funnily enough, not only is pfren still here, but he has already posted on this topic under his new account.

Avatar of MARattigan
GYG wrote:
Ethan_Brollier wrote:

First, I've seen valued members of the community leave permanently due to personal attacks like these over sustained periods of time. @pfren comes to mind

Funnily enough, not only is pfren still here, but he has already posted on this topic under his new account.

Nice to know - which is?

Avatar of GYG
MARattigan wrote:

Nice to know - which is?

@Mazetoskylo

Avatar of DiogenesDue
GYG wrote:
Ethan_Brollier wrote:

First, I've seen valued members of the community leave permanently due to personal attacks like these over sustained periods of time. @pfren comes to mind

Funnily enough, not only is pfren still here, but he has already posted on this topic under his new account.

I thought his comparing Pfren to Tygxc was hilarious given that Pfren eviscerated Tygxc when he first posted his premises...

Avatar of MEGACHE3SE
DiogenesDue wrote:
GYG wrote:
Ethan_Brollier wrote:

First, I've seen valued members of the community leave permanently due to personal attacks like these over sustained periods of time. @pfren comes to mind

Funnily enough, not only is pfren still here, but he has already posted on this topic under his new account.

I thought his comparing Pfren to Tygxc was hilarious given that Pfren eviscerated Tygxc when he first posted his premises...

oh really? was that on the megathread?

Avatar of MARattigan
GYG wrote:
MARattigan wrote:

Nice to know - which is?

@Mazetoskylo

Thanks.

Avatar of DiogenesDue
MEGACHE3SE wrote:
DiogenesDue wrote:
GYG wrote:
Ethan_Brollier wrote:

First, I've seen valued members of the community leave permanently due to personal attacks like these over sustained periods of time. @pfren comes to mind

Funnily enough, not only is pfren still here, but he has already posted on this topic under his new account.

I thought his comparing Pfren to Tygxc was hilarious given that Pfren eviscerated Tygxc when he first posted his premises...

oh really? was that on the megathread?

Probably, but it could have been on the Ponz thread or the previous "Will computers solve chess?" thread.

Avatar of IJustCantEven
I thought computers mastered it
Avatar of IJustCantEven
Or is that different
Avatar of Optimissed
IJustCantEven wrote:
Is chess solvable without programming things to solve it for us? I am talking about making chess a totally obsolete, not mind intriguing game because the human mind has made it a routine to do certain moves in certain scenarios to beat your opponent every time. There are many games where you can solve them by looking at patterns and forcing inevitable moves to win every single time. Take the game Chopsticks, for example. If you do your moves right, the person who goes first always looses. I consider chess something that is complex in the way that there are multiple different ways to try to get as good as you can, but there is no way to predict your opponent’s mind. That’s what is so beautiful about the game. Making moves that will force a certian thinking for your opponents.
On the other hand, there are AI engines that will beat the most renowned chess masters, but that is different than humans beating it. The AI engine goes through all the scenarios of each move, the probability of the outcome of how the opponent will react to which feints and plays, all in a millisecond. The human mind may never work that way for a long time, so I wonder if there is a way for us to find a better, more intuitive way of playing that will always lead to an inevitable win.
I know there is a forum post on General Chess.com Discussion about chess never being able to be solved, but I didn’t really get it. So I put this post in my terms in hopes of a different approach. If yes to all of this, there is also the controversy of: If both players both mastered it, who would win? Anyways, thanks if you read all this

You won't get a different approach unless you identify the trolls that operate on the other thread and block them all. Otherwise you'll get exactly the same thing.

Avatar of DiogenesDue
Optimissed wrote:

You won't get a different approach unless you identify the trolls that operate on the other thread and block them all. Otherwise you'll get exactly the same thing.

There's no "different approach" to be found, nor would blocking the reasonable/sane people and leaving the crackpots give the OP any viable answers.

Perhaps your time is better spent bumping some other threads and getting them locked...?

Avatar of playerafar
DiogenesDue wrote:
Optimissed wrote:

You won't get a different approach unless you identify the trolls that operate on the other thread and block them all. Otherwise you'll get exactly the same thing.

There's no "different approach" to be found, nor would blocking the reasonable/sane people and leaving the crackpots give the OP any viable answers.

Perhaps your time is better spent bumping some other threads and getting them locked...?

they can also 'identify' O. @Optimissed.
And know that he mainly does 'you and me' stuff - that that's why he's here.

Avatar of Optimissed
playerafar wrote:
DiogenesDue wrote:
Optimissed wrote:

You won't get a different approach unless you identify the trolls that operate on the other thread and block them all. Otherwise you'll get exactly the same thing.

There's no "different approach" to be found, nor would blocking the reasonable/sane people and leaving the crackpots give the OP any viable answers.

Perhaps your time is better spent bumping some other threads and getting them locked...?

they can also 'identify' O. @Optimissed.
And know that he mainly does 'you and me' stuff - that that's why he's here.

The trolls are identifying themselves. You can get rid of them.

No-one worthwhile will post here with these people posting.

Avatar of playerafar
MEGACHE3SE wrote:
Optimissed wrote:
MEGACHE3SE wrote:

ethan are you going to change your post or am I going to need to give more examples of completely false tygxc claims?

again, i dont care about 'rightness' or any sort of personal image. but your post gives false credence to tygxc and could lead to people wasting their time with his ideas.

How come you say you are something like a second year maths student and yet you spend your time trying to support the likes of dodgy maths teachers? Somehow it doesn't seem realistic. Why aren't you talking to your friends? Why are you the only one of your type, hanging out with a bunch of aged trolls on Chess.com instead of doing what's normal for you? In other words, you don't seem real.

You don't know enough to determine whether tygxc is right or wrong. You are about the level in university maths which I attained before I switched to philosophy.

ah yes, optimissed. baseless insults instead of actual arguments. what's great is that I don't even need to warn people about you, your posts have so little substance to them people figure it out almost instantly on their own.

Considering how middle school math topics stumped you in other threads, it's a *little* hard to believe that your maths education is what you say, as well as the fact that not a single math topic that you've presented or interacted with has gone beyond the early highschool level. You might have studied maths into colelge, but that doesnt mean that I (and others) didnt learn your "university" maths in middle school or highschool.

I'm not even writing this out as a defense of myself. I feel no need to defend myself from you. I am writing this because I feel you yourself need to know how you are considered by myself and others.

MEGA is correct. O 'needs to know'. And O is Optimissed.
But O operates in a zone whereby if enough people don't 'figure it out on their own' temporarily - then he can and does live in that zone.
His 'nirvana' that he makes his life mission - is to get opening posters to block anybody who opposes him - and to get the chess.com staff to mute anybody who does too.
Been his 'life's work' for ten years now. On this website.
But Result Instead: O gets blocked by some of the best posters and himself gets muted by chess.com including twice very recently.
----------------------------------
In the latest installment - he finally took a self-imposed rest for three days - absolutely essential for him to avoid three mutes in a row by chess,.com.
Why mention?
Even though posters can figure him out on their own - he gets temporary 'advantage' by them getting blindsided for a while. Especially people unfamiliar. Or kids.
Why doesn't he and people like him just make their own forums and block whoever they don't like?
Because then they don't get to complain and be masochistic is why.
----------------------------------------------------
and now - the forum topic.
Why is it shifting here from the other 'never be solved' forum?
the opening poster there doesn't have an account.
For another - a new forum creates some new approach and new dynamics.
For another - new opening posters get to put the forum topic and questions their way.
And many prefer that to just continuing with the same forum.
----------------------------
Is it a great topic?
The short answer is yes.
Because it pertains to the game of chess as a whole.
Part of putting it in perspective.
And is relevant to how it was designed and evolved.
The most popular indoor game of all time?
Well - cards is popular too but that's often for money. And is usually a group game.
How is the most popular indoor one-on-one game in world history designed?
What was in mind?
Chess didn't start with any one person.
It evolved into its current form.
In western europe. (although its predecessors started in India)
The development of chess in its modern form was centered in France - which was also the geographically central country in the development of math and science.
For hundreds of years - all the greats in math and science were born and lived and operated in France or in very nearby countries. Until the 1800s when America entered that picture too.
---------------------------
And computers have helped it - instead of hurting it.
Chess was designed and evolved - to Not be solved.
And before computers too.
And tygxc has already admitted that it can't be solved with current technology.
So the discussion over the last two years has revolved around 'solving alternatives'.
In other words - what actually happens.
And other interpretations of 'solving'.

Avatar of IJustCantEven
Wait an american said maths?!?! Haven’t seen that before thats cool.
Avatar of Optimissed

He's probably an alt.