Is it cheating to use youtube during games?

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steveyankou

Say you're in the midst of a queens gambit accepted game (for example) and your opponent makes a common mistake you saw on youtube (b5 to protect the c4 pawn). The problem is, you can't remember exactly how to take advantage of it. Is it ok to pull up the video for a refresher? Is it any different if it's a correspondence game?

notmtwain

Yes, it would be considered cheating in live chess. You are not allowed to receive any advice during a game.

No, it would not be considered cheating, in correspondence chess, since the video is in no way responding to your particular situation, like a computer chess engine would.

steveyankou

I tend to agree, but I'm not totally convinced. I guess I'm not clear on the difference. In the queen's gambit example I gave, the video very much speaks directly to one's particular situation.

notmtwain
steveyankou wrote:

I tend to agree, but I'm not totally convinced. I guess I'm not clear on the difference. In the queen's gambit example I gave, the video very much speaks directly to one's particular situation.

Yes, but it wasn't created in response to your situation. It is just like having a book showing the variation.

isayoldboy

Just to be a the devil's advocate here, I think this form of "cheating" is probably much less insidious than using an engine. If you were playing a five minute game and it took you a minute to click over to another tab, look at the video, take in the position, and make a move, wouldn't that put you at a disadvantage anyway, because you spent so much time doing it? Most openings are common knowledge anyway, and there's very little chance that you'd find a youtube video containing that exact position, unless it was a video discussing a certain opening.

If cheating with an engine is the ecquivalent of copying an essay and handing it in as a book report, then this is the equivalent of copying a section of the book you're doing the report on, verbatim, into the essay. More like quotation than plagiarism.

It's vaguely unscrupulous but then so is misusing vacation time, etc.

http://www.chess.com/blog/Eilyisum/my-journey-to-2700-blitz-and-a-plea-to-chesscom

This is a little dated but it is food for thought. Cheating via engine is much more concerning problem on this site.

macer75
isayoldboy wrote:

If cheating with an engine is the ecquivalent of copying an essay and handing it in as a book report, then this is the equivalent of copying a section of the book you're doing the report on, verbatim, into the essay. More like quotation than plagiarism.

To build on the analogy, watching a video in live chess would be like quoting from the book in an in-class essay where you aren't supposed to be using the book. Laughing

jurassicmark
isayoldboy wrote:

Just to be a the devil's advocate here, I think this form of "cheating" is probably much less insidious than using an engine. If you were playing a five minute game and it took you a minute to click over to another tab, look at the video, take in the position, and make a move, wouldn't that put you at a disadvantage anyway, because you spent so much time doing it? Most openings are common knowledge anyway, and there's very little chance that you'd find a youtube video containing that exact position, unless it was a video discussing a certain opening.

If cheating with an engine is the ecquivalent of copying an essay and handing it in as a book report, then this is the equivalent of copying a section of the book you're doing the report on, verbatim, into the essay. More like quotation than plagiarism.

It's vaguely unscrupulous but then so is misusing vacation time, etc.

http://www.chess.com/blog/Eilyisum/my-journey-to-2700-blitz-and-a-plea-to-chesscom

This is a little dated but it is food for thought. Cheating via engine is much more concerning problem on this site.

But, just to be clear, in live chess this is absolutely cheating...period.

blasterdragon

so if im in a rook and pawn endgame im not allowed to use a book to remember the key steps? ...

Jion_Wansu

Is it cheating if you use your own physical chess set during a game on chess.com at the same time?

jurassicmark
ddmeltzer8 wrote:

the hole point of correspondance games is to use all help u can,right?

I don't know if that's the point, but engine use is still cheating.  Watching a youtube video on an opening is ok.

jurassicmark
blasterdragon wrote:

so if im in a rook and pawn endgame im not allowed to use a book to remember the key steps? ...

Yes, in correspndence chess this is acceptable, but not in live chess.

jurassicmark
Jion_Wansu wrote:

Is it cheating if you use your own physical chess set during a game on chess.com at the same time?

I'm guessing this would be against the rules in live chess, but perfectly acceptable in correspondence chess.  I suppose if in live chess you were just using the physical board to mirror the movements of the 2D board to simulate the over the board experience, this might not be ethically bad, but I'm not sure it's in the spirit of the rules...This is over my head.  It would definitely be against the rules if you were making any kind of calculations with the physical board in-between moves.

Jion_Wansu
jurassicmark wrote:
Jion_Wansu wrote:

Is it cheating if you use your own physical chess set during a game on chess.com at the same time?

I'm guessing this would be against the rules in live chess, but perfectly acceptable in correspondence chess.  I suppose if in live chess you were just using the physical board to mirror the movements of the 2D board to simulate the over the board experience, this might not be ethically bad, but I'm not sure it's in the spirit of the rules...This is over my head.  It would definitely be against the rules if you were making any kind of calculations with the physical board in-between moves.

But, how can anyone prove it...

2travel

obviously okay

MSteen

It has been a time-honored tradition in correspondence chess to use any and all help in the form of books, magazines, and other reference works. In this Internet age, such help can quite properly be understood to include articles and videos online.

What has never been acceptable is using the advice of a player much stronger than yourself or, today, using a chess engine to generate a move in a specific position.

So my 2 cents is simply this: Use the videos, online articles, printed material, etc. to your heart's content with no feelings of guilt whatsoever. But when you ask your neighbor Magnus for his insight, or when you submit your position to your good friend Rybka, then you've crossed the line.

2travel

thats obviously okay

Jion_Wansu

Magnus AHHAHHHA

Senior-Lazarus_Long

If the video was an actual game being played at the same time as you were playing your coorespondance game,with commentary and computer analysis being displayed,it would be cheating. If it was an archived video you could use it the same as any other published materials.

PossibleOatmeal
jurassicmark wrote:
Jion_Wansu wrote:

Is it cheating if you use your own physical chess set during a game on chess.com at the same time?

I'm guessing this would be against the rules in live chess, but perfectly acceptable in correspondence chess.  I suppose if in live chess you were just using the physical board to mirror the movements of the 2D board to simulate the over the board experience, this might not be ethically bad, but I'm not sure it's in the spirit of the rules...This is over my head.  It would definitely be against the rules if you were making any kind of calculations with the physical board in-between moves.

Mirroring the board on a physical set is perfectly fine on every site I've ever been on.  I would even encourage people to do it in long games.  No, you may not move the pieces in any way other than to mirror the board, but having the position set up on a real board is absolutely fine.  There was a thread here about it where some people tried to twist one of the phrases in the rules specific to chess.com to mean you couldn't do it, but it was pretty obvious that it was quite a stretch to try to make it refer to that situation.

Any game I play online with a time control of more than 30 seconds and more than 10 seconds of increment, I promise you, I will be using a real board.  I simply treat the online board as a notation device and play the game on my board.  If you ever play over-the-board tournaments and struggle with the different way of viewing the pieces, I highly suggest doing this to get used to it.

Senior-Lazarus_Long

If you were playing in a live OTB tournament. You couldn't set up a mirror board at the table. How is this different?