vacation rule unfair
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I think that while insulting and un-sportsmanlike, the type of abuse in question has no actual victim. If I have to wait for a month to see a bit of a rating boost, that doesn't impact me in any actual way. The rule can hurt a player who had something unexpected come up and must, therefore, take vacation immediately. I think that the drawbacks of the solution are greater than those of the problem. So, in response to Jay, my solution doesn't require any coding at all. Just delete the codes for the rule. I hope this isn't misconstrued as whining. I've personally never had to use my vacation time, but can see the problem presented to those few honest people who need to leave quickly. In an attempt to completely overdramatize the situation, I'll leave you with the theory of the American justice system: It's better to set a hundred guilty men free than to wrongfully imprison one innocent man.
So all of Fischer's rants and insults have no actual victim either? On most sites "insulting" others can get you in trouble, even banned in worse case scenarios so why should a player insulting other players be immune to any form of "correction" ? I wont get into the American justice system as it tends to raise my blood pressure too much.
I understand that one feels slighted when something like this occurs. It's not my intention to downplay that. I am of the opinion, however, that an insult is only as vicious as the effect one allows it to have on himself. Many people let trivial happenings eat away at them. I think that, in the big picture, that's exactly what the games we play here are - trivial. I see a major difference between the type of insults Fischer flings and that of the vacation vendetta. Insults involving race, gender, and the like propagate hatred and have serious social consequences. What are the real consequences of an abandoned game? I agree that it's not fair, but let's be the bigger people. If you put things into perspective, I think that you'll find that the inconvenience of an abandoner is ultimately negligible.
The American justice system is heavily flawed I agree. The merits of that institution were not my point, though. It was merely an applicable argument. Do you find a flaw in the theory itself?
One thing about the net.....such unsportsmanlike bahavior is far more common than in otb events.....I guess when you are face to face with your opponent insulting them could have drastic consequences so people tend to mind their manners better. Oh, because of spair75 I not only wont play him again but have decided not to play any players in his rating range at all....maybe 1800 and up or 2000 and up....stronger players understand when they should resign.
If you want to continue to stew, that's fine.
I've noticed that many people feel that traditional values and respect should be upheld at all costs. I think making rules that have a potential negative effect on good people just to force everyone to be respectful is, in itself, disrespectful.
do you have a problem with people 'not resigning' or with people 'not resigning AND dragging each inevitable move out for as long as possible'. The first, i see no problem with as you shouldnt resign until you decide you have nothing left to try, or you dont wish to carry on. If a weak player drops their queen and doesnt resign, no problem, this is chess, i must prove that my queen is a winning advantage. The latter, seems to be a uniquely correspondence problem and is clearly out of order if it is clear they are dragging out EVERY move to the last minute (i would maybe expect moves to take a fair bit longer if they are seriously trying to play a lost game) after dropping their queen (say), or going on vacation one move from defeat.
and what is the big deal with the draw offers... they dont pop up or anything, if he wants to offer you a draw one move from mate, so what, you dont even have to decline it, just make your move.
Yes, it's unfortunate, broken record. It's not worth punishing everyone for, though.
sstteevveenn wrote:
do you have a problem with people 'not resigning' or with people 'not resigning AND dragging each inevitable move out for as long as possible'. The first, i see no problem with as you shouldnt resign until you decide you have nothing left to try, or you dont wish to carry on. If a weak player drops their queen and doesnt resign, no problem, this is chess, i must prove that my queen is a winning advantage. The latter, seems to be a uniquely correspondence problem and is clearly out of order if it is clear they are dragging out EVERY move to the last minute (i would maybe expect moves to take a fair bit longer if they are seriously trying to play a lost game) after dropping their queen (say), or going on vacation one move from defeat.
and what is the big deal with the draw offers... they dont pop up or anything, if he wants to offer you a draw one move from mate, so what, you dont even have to decline it, just make your move.
First, take a look at the position in question, my game with spare75. Do you think he should continue playing? Does anyone here? Ok, if he wants to play till mate , fine but the waiting till the last hour or 30 minutes to make each move is what irritates me most, that and the knowledge that hes doing this in about a dozen of his games. If he would just move at the same speed that he did in the first 20 moves I would have no problem if he wants to play till mate. I am anticipating that he will also take a "vacation" a couple of moves before mate.....wanna bet?
I think I'm done here.
Unforseen things come up. These are casual games. If you and I were playing at the coffee shop and I got a call that my wife was going to the hospital, would you let me pause the clock? You guys speak of how rude these people are and you're perfectly ready to force me to lose all of my games if an emergency pops up.
haha, having already checked the game, i knew the specific example is one where he is way down and dragging out the moves, so i dont wanna bet cos i think you're probably right. your reply makes it clear that it isnt the 'not resigning' that is the problem, but the 'not resigning and instead dragging every pointless move out as long as possible'. This would annoy me too. This, and particularly the vacation abuse would, funnily enough, annoy me far more in a short time control, say one day per move, as i would have to stay constantly vigilant, and sign in every day to check the game, or risk losing!
Dec 22, 2007
0
#54
liammor wrote:
Jay there was a suggestion from sstteevveenn (I think) earlier about being able to go on vacation but still having to play outstanding moves. You just wouldn't have to play any new moves. Is this possible or is this the suggestion you say would take too much programming?
The way the vacationing works on our system is that it is a per user setting, not a per user per game setting. So if you're on vacation, then ALL your games are on vacation. When you come back from vacation, ALL your games are time credited with how long you were on vacation. Making any rule changes that require the vacationing to be changed to a per user per game setting would be quite time consuming and is not something we can do at this point.
Here's what this thread makes me think of:
We should take away peoples' right to drive, because people drive drunk.
But that's not fair to the people who don't drive drunk and need to drive.
Right, people drive drunk. Stupid Licenses.
It's not right to take away my license. I don't even drink!
I get around fine. Quit whining.
You may live a short walk from town, but I live on the mountain.
Hey has anybody noticed that people drive drunk?!
Actually, that exchange isn't a very accurate representation. Drunk drivers actually have a negative impact on people.
Soem people compare apples to oranges and think they are cute/funny.
Reb wrote:
Soem people compare apples to oranges and think they are cute/funny.
A bit like comparing racism/sexism to your opponent taking vacation. You're right. I'm out of line.
silentfilmstar13 wrote: Reb wrote:
Soem people compare apples to oranges and think they are cute/funny.
A bit like comparing racism/sexism to your opponent taking vacation. You're right. I'm out of line.
I never made such a comparison, maybe you should work on your reading comprehension? I have no problem with anyone taking vacation as long as they do so within the rules. You have a problem with rules? Check my game with spare75, I have mate next move but he won't resign and unless I miss my guess he will time out rather than move, fine. At least now he cannot go on vacation and make me wait another month thanks to the rule that he must make a move! This you have a problem with? Grow up.
I admit that its unfortunate that a few bad eggs cause rules to be made that some, who arent bad eggs, find unfair or unnecessary but this is the way life is. I dont like that I am on cctv almost everywhere I go in public these days either, even the grocery stores have cctv. They treat everyone as thieves because there are a few thieves, instead of whining about the rules (cameras) maybe something should be done about the thieves? Just a thought.
silentfilmstar13 wrote:
Unforseen things come up. These are casual games. If you and I were playing at the coffee shop and I got a call that my wife was going to the hospital, would you let me pause the clock? You guys speak of how rude these people are and you're perfectly ready to force me to lose all of my games if an emergency pops up.
Coffee shop games arent rated so are more "casual" than rated games. I notice you use the 3 day time limit quite a bit here on chess.com so how is the emergency you described gonna be a problem? You dont even have to make a move for 3 days....you have ample time I believe to take care of most "emergencies". Now, if the emergency is really grave and since you have already said these are just casual games anyway who cares if you lose all your games? If there was a REAL emergency in my life I wouldnt give a second thought to my games here and I obviously take chess more seriously than you do. So, if its a real emergency : who cares about games anyway?! and if its not an emergency you should be able to comply with the rules and make your move before actually taking some "vacation" time which is usually planned in advance anyway.