How 9 points of advantage can lead to a draw?

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PLAYERIII
The engine gives white +9, but it’s still a draw… How???
PLAYERIII

I know it’s a draw, but the engine gives white +9

Sharp2Axe
Lol
Arisktotle

Click on the "Tablebase Box" in Analysis and the secondary engine will give it a Draw.

eric0022

Weirdly enough this game did not end in a draw.

 

https://www.chess.com/game/live/2449103502?username=fryedk

 

It was a game in Nov 2017.

eric0022
PLAYERIII wrote:

I know it’s a draw, but the engine gives white +9

 

I think the engine simply counts the material White has as "two bishops". So it dishes out a +9.

 

EDIT: I ran it on the free stockfish program for non-site members at depth 20 and it's only +6.10.

tygxc

Even with 27 points advantage it is a draw:

 



TRAP4MOUSE

don't yuh know engines are not best in endgames and at the closed position. don't you?

PLAYERIII
eric0022 escreveu:

Weirdly enough this game did not end in a draw.

 

https://www.chess.com/game/live/2449103502?username=fryedk

 

It was a game in Nov 2017.

White has no time in the clock, so he lost… If he had timer in the clock, he would never be checkmated.

PLAYERIII
 


eric0022 escreveu:
PLAYERIII wrote:

I know it’s a draw, but the engine gives white +9

 

I think the engine simply counts the material White has as "two bishops". So it dishes out a +9.

 

EDIT: I ran it on the free stockfish program for non-site members at depth 20 and it's only +6.10.



The weird thing is:

 

 

It’s also a draw, and black has LOTS of material, but the engine gives 0.0

ThrillerFan
PLAYERIII wrote:
The engine gives white +9, but it’s still a draw… How???

 

This is why younger people today that only use artificial intelligence to study will always fail!

Artificial intelligence is a compliment to proper chess study, not a substitute.

Computers are not good at evaluating positions at all.  They are good at tactics and forcing sequences, period end of story.

They suck at openings and need an opening book.

They suck at endgames and need a tablebase.

They suck at numerical evaluations.  For example, they give KRN vs KR an assessment of +3.  We all know that barring an immediate case of being able to win the Rook, this is merely a draw!  Another example is after 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nf3 O-O 6.Be2 e5, AI gives this as almost +1.  This position is not +1.

 

Stop relying on artificial intelligence.  It should be a compliment to studying on a board, not a substitute!

jetoba
PLAYERIII wrote:
eric0022 escreveu:

Weirdly enough this game did not end in a draw.

 

https://www.chess.com/game/live/2449103502?username=fryedk

 

It was a game in Nov 2017.

White has no time in the clock, so he lost… If he had timer in the clock, he would never be checkmated.

Per both FIDE and US Chess rules, if there is no legal series of moves that can end in checkmating your opponent then if your opponent flags it is a draw.  Chess.com was only counting pieces, not noticing that having both Bishops traveling on the same squares made checkmate impossible to achieve (another example is Chess.com willing to award a win to the unflagged player in White Ke1, Ph4, Pf4, Pc4, Pa4 vs Black Ke8, Ph5, Pf5, Pc5, Pa5 - both US Chess and FIDE would call it a draw because checkmate is impossible).

TRAP4MOUSE
ThrillerFan wrote:
PLAYERIII wrote:
The engine gives white +9, but it’s still a draw… How???

 

This is why younger people today that only use artificial intelligence to study will always fail!

Artificial intelligence is a compliment to proper chess study, not a substitute.

Computers are not good at evaluating positions at all.  They are good at tactics and forcing sequences, period end of story.

They suck at openings and need an opening book.

They suck at endgames and need a tablebase.

They suck at numerical evaluations.  For example, they give KRN vs KR an assessment of +3.  We all know that barring an immediate case of being able to win the Rook, this is merely a draw!  Another example is after 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nf3 O-O 6.Be2 e5, AI gives this as almost +1.  This position is not +1.

 

Stop relying on artificial intelligence.  It should be a compliment to studying on a board, not a substitute!

Yea I agree everyone thinks AI are best at chess in my pov AI are the worst chess players 

Serperior42

It's a draw due to 3 reasons.

1) Repetition
2) Agreement
3) Draw by Insufficient Material VS Timeout (In this case, Black gets the Draw while White gets the loss)

jrp288

In the same vein...I know this was a timed game, so i get it, but, I had one move to make and .7 seconds (it said I didn't make it in time, but I couldn't have made it faster), and I was +11 and had mate in 1...

 

https://www.chess.com/analysis/game/live/35656013735

jetoba
Serperior42 wrote:

It's a draw due to 3 reasons.

1) Repetition
2) Agreement
3) Draw by Insufficient Material VS Timeout (In this case, Black gets the Draw while White gets the loss)

In the third case both players get a draw.

DefenderPug2
tygxc wrote:

Even with 27 points advantage it is a draw:

 



#7 it is a draw since the king can’t capture any of the bishops. And the bishops can never put the king check, since the king would have to move into check to do so, which is an illegal move.

jetoba

As far as #10 goes, the forced stalemate is a one move-pair calculation to the end of the game.  In the bishop-same-color-squares endings there is no fixed end point and the calculations show the bishops retaining their material edge.

MiyaTheBird

The reason why it is '+9' is that the computer cant caluclate a mate, but it thinks they are winning because of the material advantage. It finally realises at like 25 bishops

2718a

Engine says +100 but it's a draw bishop and wrong rook pawn