Let's talk about K+Q vs K+R, okay ?

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Avatar of Gil-Gandel
fightingbob wrote:

For those who are interested, here is Larry Evans' 1979 syndicated column on just this topic (below).  It seems GM Walter Browne failed at corralling his silicon opponent's king and picking off the rook at first, but made it just under the wire in his second attempt.

For those interested in learning this ending and wanting more than a wordless database, I suggest John Nunn's Secrets of Pawnless Endings.  Mr. Nunn does his usually thorough job analyzing and explaining it.

 

Yes, when my post at #11 got screwed up this was what I was coming in to mention (though I don't have the press cutting and couldn't have told you which GM it was). Belle was able in certain positions to defend by moving the Rook to a square from which "she" had calculated there was no forking continuation, and Browne wasted many moves trying to find one.

Notice that back in 1979 computers couldn't even beat Masters in whole games played under tournament rules (David Levy had a ten-year bet on that he won comfortably in 1978). But the difference in speed and power of modern computers compared to 37 years ago is almost unimaginable, especially from back then; let alone improvements in programming. 

Avatar of The_Ghostess_Lola

The key sentence is in the newspaper article is:

"The common basic wins that can be done in less than 50 moves must be memorized by anyone aspiring to mastery."

And you can rest ez'ly that the day you're playing for a Master's Title or Norm in a really big tournament ?....you will get this ending....it's Murphy's Law.

Also, knowing this gives you the confidence that you can reduce the game down to this and win w/ no worries & w/out embarrassing yourself. IOW's, maybe you don't deserve being a master if you don't know this one.

Avatar of The_Ghostess_Lola

(#41) "she"

Thanx Gil....Smile....


Avatar of Gil-Gandel

It's interesting that in the famous Saavedra Position it's taken for granted that White has a win if he can queen the pawn. Far from easy, as the thread has been saying.

Avatar of CuddlyMonkey
The_Ghostess_Lola wrote:

IOW's, maybe you don't deserve being a master if you don't know this one.

I guess that your mind won't be changed on this so I won't try. However, I still maintain that masters who have a hole in their knowledge here impress me far more than those who don't. Mostly so in young players who are still rapidly improving. They simply should NOT know this. I would be very disapointed if I met one who did.

Avatar of MonkeyH

So normally this is a win for the Q side yes? Or has it a drawish reputation with perfect play?

Avatar of wayne_thomas

With perfect play, the queen always wins except in positions where there is an immediate perpetual or stalemate.

Avatar of SmyslovFan

For my money, Q vs R is the hardest of the basic mates to perform. Even world champion candidates have messed this one up. 

But, luckily for us, there are several places where we can practice our technique in this very difficult endgame. 

Avatar of Pulpofeira

In his book about endgames, GM de la Villa states although being extremely difficult against proper defense, in practice is not rare the defender loses his/her way.

Avatar of wayne_thomas

In the press conference after Fabiano Caruana failed to mate Peter Svidler with B+R vs R in the Candidates round 13, Peter Svidler says that he has failed to win Q vs R in a similar situation.