Minor Pieces vs Queen

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Avatar of AckibePlays

Sometimes 3 minor pieces > queen in the endgame.

Avatar of MARattigan

@AmericanUnderdog

About 20% of positions, as I said in the previous post. And vice versa about 50%. But actually winning with the queen probably won't happen 50% of the time. Try winning with the queen against the Syzygy tablebase from this winning position.

Or just against an engine via the magnifying glass.

 
 

If you fail against the engine, don't be downhearted. So does the engine.

 
 
Avatar of AckibePlays
MARattigan wrote:

@AmericanUnderdog

About 20% of positions, as I said in the previous post. And vice versa about 50%. But actually winning with the queen probably won't happen 50% of the time. Try winning with the queen against the Syzygy tablebase from this winning position.

Or just against an engine via the magnifying glass.

 
 

If you fail against the engine, don't be downhearted. So does the engine.

 
 

Thank you for elaborating on this.

Avatar of MARattigan

Out of interest here's an example of how the above position should be played (Rybka has the Nalimov tables).

 
 

(But don't ask me to annotate it.)

Avatar of iliashilo

Hi, guys

Avatar of Patriots_12
orangehonda wrote:

Hmm, you think a queen can beat 3 and even 4 minor pieces? Then these two drawn positions should blow your mind

The 2nd position is a fortress, Notice how the bishop and knight protect the borders of their king's 3 by 3 box in the corner. King can not penetrate throught that. so draw it is

Avatar of EndgameEnthusiast2357

The 4 standard minor pieces, as well as 4 knights, both have been proven to beat a queen.

Avatar of kklyle

Queen wins 3 minors more often than it loses. And mathematically.

Rook, Knight, Bishop beats Queen.

Avatar of Johkoul

This conversation is so close to sounding incredibly illegal.

Avatar of EndgameEnthusiast2357
kklyle wrote:

Queen wins 3 minors more often than it loses. And mathematically.

Rook, Knight, Bishop beats Queen.

Maybe Rook + 2 opposite colored bishops, but I think RBN is a draw.

Avatar of MARattigan
EndgameEnthusiast2357 wrote:

The 4 standard minor pieces, as well as 4 knights, both have been proven to beat a queen.

If you look further up the page I posted three positions with 4 minor pieces v. queen that are theoretical draws and two that are won by the queen, so however it was proven, it was proven wrong.

It is, however, easy to rigorously prove that there are no combinations of material that contain any legal positions and are theoretically won for either side from all positions.

KQKRBN is drawn from 47.2% of positions with ply count 0 under the 50 move rule under either FIDE basic or FIDE competition rules.

Avatar of EndgameEnthusiast2357

Yeah I know I always mean from the fairest starting positions without any immediate tactics.

Avatar of EndgameEnthusiast2357

These are the types of positions I test for various piece combinations, to make it start off as balanced as possible:

Avatar of Superplayer7472
rrrttt wrote:

4 minors always win unless one can be captured

Even if it looks like this?

Avatar of True_Jonesy

yh