Queen v Rook Position

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Avatar of technical_knockout

fortress = no way to make progress.

Avatar of MARattigan
Black to play, draw

 

That one's slightly more interesting.

According to Syzygy 3.5% of KQKR positions are drawn.

Avatar of technical_knockout

this is the draw i had in mind:

black simply toggles Rf7+/Rg7+/Rh7+...

white king to e-file runs into the pin Re7;

K to h6 runs into Rh7+! Kxh6 stalemate;

K to f6 runs into Rg6+! Kxg6 stalemate;

knowing & avoiding tricks is important.

Avatar of pandadanda1999

Queen advantage really

Avatar of Thee_Ghostess_Lola

fortress = no way to make progress.

wrong. sorry (kinda). i just read where they say that a fortress (in puzzle) is one where the strong side moves first and/or the weak side king is protected (why theyre calling it a 4tress duh) by its own pieces. i feel summa u are confuzing a fortress w/ stalemate tricks. 

go back to #36 (2nd board ex.). White to Move. this should learn ya.

Avatar of MARattigan

After Rf7+ above White does move first. Don't understand your point.

Avatar of Thee_Ghostess_Lola

no dopey. White to MOVE in #42. got it ? lol !

Avatar of MARattigan

Forget #42 then

White to play, draw

That better?

Avatar of Thee_Ghostess_Lola

to me this is a pseudo-fortress at best. only cuz it needsa stalemate trick at the end to make it hold up. feeling unconvinced.

Avatar of technical_knockout

no way for white to make progress:

with best play the game will end in a 3-fold rep, 50-move, stalemate or insufficient material draw.  🙂

Avatar of MARattigan

Wikipaedia is not an authoritative source, but I think many people would agree with their definition:

In endgame theory, a fortress is an impenetrable position which, if obtained by the side with a material disadvantage, may result in a draw due to the stronger side's inability to make progress.

Seems to fit the bill. What would your definition be?

Lots of positions described as fortresses in endgame manuals where the side with a material advantage can stalemate.

Avatar of technical_knockout

i'd replace may with will with best play:

otherwise it isn't truly a fortress to begin with.  🙂

Avatar of MARattigan

Yes. But then it's difficult to distinguish between a fortress and a draw.

Avatar of Romans_5_8_and_8_5

White to play and win wink.png 

Avatar of MARattigan

Can't really be White to play; the game's already over.

Avatar of Romans_5_8_and_8_5

 

Avatar of newbie4711

It seems chess.com calls this a fortress, too.

https://www.chess.com/terms/chess-fortress

A lonely king = fortress? Sounds strange.

 

Avatar of technical_knockout

awesome puzzle:  no way to progress.  🙂

Avatar of MARattigan
technical_knockout wrote:

no way for white to make progress:

with best play the game will end in a 3-fold rep, 50-move, stalemate or insufficient material draw.  🙂

Don't believe it can end in a 50 move rule draw with best play. Both #42 and #48 are set up with a ply count 0 FEN.

Best play by Black would be to claim a triple repetition first.

Avatar of technical_knockout

you win the nitpicker award:  congrats!  😆