rook endgame principles for time issues

lovethepirk

I had this position playing black(black to move) and I lost due to having only 1.5 min left.  I played this out against stockfish level 10 a few times and won each time without using crazy amounts of time, but I def needed more than 1.5 minutes lol.

1) Are there principles you can stick to to win these end games easily without worrying about the fastest finish and just stick to principles to get you thru?  For instance, I think I learned I have the king isolated to the h file. Should I do as much movement as I can before releasing this isolation via the rook?  Is that a principle that can get you thru such a game without using too much time? 

2) Stockfish says take the pawn immediately or move the rook to protect the back pawns while still maintaining the white king to the h file. Which is the better move to just get shit done without any brain damage.  I feel the rook to protect the pawns might be better b/c it then can slide nicely behind them when the time comes if need be.

 

3) In my game I quickly moved my rook behind the enemy pawns to attack them and that let the enemy king and rook loose and it was mayhem and I couldn't calculate all the positions fast enough....I almost think that line of attack is a side note or should be done later than sooner.

Thanks...

 

Trexler3241

Black should be able to win...

PawnstormPossie

The concept would use here...

A passed pawn is worth more than pawn.

Rooks belong behind pawns

Either yours (especially if passed pawns) or your opponent's.

The pawn would be protected if you take with king, then get your rook behind your passed pawn.

PREKSHAMEHTA
Yes
Numquam

You can play both Kxe5 and Rg7 first . Then you can simply keep the rook on g7 and advance the f-pawn by supporting it with your king. When the pawn is on f2, you can play Rg1 at the right moment. The idea is to force the trade of rooks and win the pawns on the queenside with your king. This endgame is really easy because white's king is stuck on the h-file.

aggressivesociopath

I am tempted to drive the rook off and take both pawns while advancing the king with 1...Rd3, the pawn endgame after 2. Rxd3 fxd3 3. Kg3 Kxe5 4. Kf3 e2 is winning.

I imagine a lot of moves keep the win, I just did what seems natural. 1...Rd3 2. Rc1 Re2+ and where ever White's king goes, I am still going forward and taking pawns and controlling key squares.

aggressivesociopath

Of course 1...Kxd5 leaves white without a constructive move, and 2. Rd2 Rd3 3. Rc2 Kxd4 4. Kg2 is not a draw even though White has an ideal defensive position to stop the pawn.

Numquam
aggressivesociopath schreef:

I am tempted to drive the rook off and take both pawns while advancing the king with 1...Rd3, the pawn endgame after 2. Rxd3 fxd3 3. Kg3 Kxe5 4. Kf3 e2 is winning.

I imagine a lot of moves keep the win, I just did what seems natural. 1...Rd3 2. Rc1 Re2+ and where ever White's king goes, I am still going forward and taking pawns and controlling key squares.

Re3(I am assuming you mean that) does not improve black's position. Of course white doesn't trade rooks.

aggressivesociopath

Actually 2...Re2+? is flat out wrong. bludgeoning White to death with 1...Rd3 2. Rc1 Kxe5 3. Kg2 f3+ should not prove difficult.

What where you having trouble with? You say you quickly moved your rook behind the enemy pawns, did you do it with 1...Rd3? The threat of Rd2+ check picking up the a pawn is a chronic problem, all of the king and pawn endgames are easily won, and your f pawn is a constant threat.

aggressivesociopath
Numquam wrote:
aggressivesociopath schreef:

I am tempted to drive the rook off and take both pawns while advancing the king with 1...Rd3, the pawn endgame after 2. Rxd3 fxd3 3. Kg3 Kxe5 4. Kf3 e2 is winning.

I imagine a lot of moves keep the win, I just did what seems natural. 1...Rd3 2. Rc1 Re2+ and where ever White's king goes, I am still going forward and taking pawns and controlling key squares.

Re3(I am assuming you mean that) does not improve black's position. Of course white doesn't trade rooks.

Yes, it most certainly does improve Black's position. How do you meet or improve upon 1...Re3 2. Rc1 Kxe5 3. Kg2 f3+? After 3...f3+ 4. Kf2 Kf4 White is getting demolished, while after 4. Kg3 Kxe4 White has his hands full preventing natural wins like Kd3, Ke2, and queening or trading down into won rook and pawn endgames on the queenside.

I didn't say it was best, just that it wins in the most natural manner.

 

Numquam
aggressivesociopath schreef:
Numquam wrote:
aggressivesociopath schreef:

I am tempted to drive the rook off and take both pawns while advancing the king with 1...Rd3, the pawn endgame after 2. Rxd3 fxd3 3. Kg3 Kxe5 4. Kf3 e2 is winning.

I imagine a lot of moves keep the win, I just did what seems natural. 1...Rd3 2. Rc1 Re2+ and where ever White's king goes, I am still going forward and taking pawns and controlling key squares.

Re3(I am assuming you mean that) does not improve black's position. Of course white doesn't trade rooks.

Yes, it most certainly does improve Black's position. How do you meet or improve upon 1...Re3 2. Rc1 Kxe5 3. Kg2 f3+? After 3...f3+ 4. Kf2 Kf4 White is getting demolished, while after 4. Kg3 Kxe4 White has his hands full preventing natural wins like Kd3, Ke2, and queening or trading down into won rook and pawn endgames on the queenside.

I didn't say it was best, just that it wins in the most natural manner.

 

1...Re3 is not a natural move. The white king is no longer stuck on the h-file after Re3 and you don't achieve anything by playing Re3. Kxe5 can be played straight away and e4 will fall soon anyway, but you are still easily winning after that inaccuracy. I have given the most natural win in my first post.

Deranged

The best strategy when it comes to these kind of endgames is almost always to restrict enemy movement.

So keeping your rook on g7, where it simultaneously defends the 7th rank but also keeps the enemy king confined to the h-file, is the best plan.

Take your time, be patient and slowly snatch up the enemy pawns with your king.

The easiest way to lose these kind of endgames is to be in a "rush" to win as fast as possible, and thus allow your opponent some unnecessary counterplay.

aggressivesociopath
Numquam wrote:
aggressivesociopath schreef:
Numquam wrote:
aggressivesociopath schreef:

I am tempted to drive the rook off and take both pawns while advancing the king with 1...Rd3, the pawn endgame after 2. Rxd3 fxd3 3. Kg3 Kxe5 4. Kf3 e2 is winning.

I imagine a lot of moves keep the win, I just did what seems natural. 1...Rd3 2. Rc1 Re2+ and where ever White's king goes, I am still going forward and taking pawns and controlling key squares.

Re3(I am assuming you mean that) does not improve black's position. Of course white doesn't trade rooks.

Yes, it most certainly does improve Black's position. How do you meet or improve upon 1...Re3 2. Rc1 Kxe5 3. Kg2 f3+? After 3...f3+ 4. Kf2 Kf4 White is getting demolished, while after 4. Kg3 Kxe4 White has his hands full preventing natural wins like Kd3, Ke2, and queening or trading down into won rook and pawn endgames on the queenside.

I didn't say it was best, just that it wins in the most natural manner.

 

1...Re3 is not a natural move. The white king is no longer stuck on the h-file after Re3 and you don't achieve anything by playing Re3. Kxe5 can be played straight away and e4 will fall soon anyway, but you are still easily winning after that inaccuracy. I have given the most natural win in my first post.

I know I have not been a model of clarity, but do you have autism or something?

I have been trying to figure out how he managed to lose this game since he could bludgeon White to death like he was a monkey. I can understand if nobody cares, but why do you keep  saying the same thing over and over again like you didn't think I read it the first time?

Numquam
aggressivesociopath schreef:
Numquam wrote:
aggressivesociopath schreef:
Numquam wrote:
aggressivesociopath schreef:

I am tempted to drive the rook off and take both pawns while advancing the king with 1...Rd3, the pawn endgame after 2. Rxd3 fxd3 3. Kg3 Kxe5 4. Kf3 e2 is winning.

I imagine a lot of moves keep the win, I just did what seems natural. 1...Rd3 2. Rc1 Re2+ and where ever White's king goes, I am still going forward and taking pawns and controlling key squares.

Re3(I am assuming you mean that) does not improve black's position. Of course white doesn't trade rooks.

Yes, it most certainly does improve Black's position. How do you meet or improve upon 1...Re3 2. Rc1 Kxe5 3. Kg2 f3+? After 3...f3+ 4. Kf2 Kf4 White is getting demolished, while after 4. Kg3 Kxe4 White has his hands full preventing natural wins like Kd3, Ke2, and queening or trading down into won rook and pawn endgames on the queenside.

I didn't say it was best, just that it wins in the most natural manner.

 

1...Re3 is not a natural move. The white king is no longer stuck on the h-file after Re3 and you don't achieve anything by playing Re3. Kxe5 can be played straight away and e4 will fall soon anyway, but you are still easily winning after that inaccuracy. I have given the most natural win in my first post.

I know I have not been a model of clarity, but do you have autism or something?

I have been trying to figure out how he managed to lose this game since he could bludgeon White to death like he was a monkey. I can understand if nobody cares, but why do you keep  saying the same thing over and over again like you didn't think I read it the first time?

If you really understood what I was saying, you'd never think Re3 improves the position. Your posts only show your own lack of understanding.

First let's remove the h-pawn from the starting position. Now the position is still as easy as before. However your plan no longer works. Re3 is a serious mistake in the position without h-pawn.

 

aggressivesociopath

No shit, if you take everything off of the board except the pawn on f4, the rooks, and of course the kings, then the position is a theoretical draw. What does that have to do with anything?

I am not arguing about chess, I am complaining that you are either autistic or have a poor grasp of the English language.  Social skills and the ability to read and write are far more important then a board game or arguing about a board game on the internet. You do understand that right? Of course you don't, if you did you would have found a better use of your time.

I read and understood what you said the first time. I pointed out that Black could win by playing like a monkey. I never represented that this was best play. Can you hear me in there? Should I type louder and wave my arms around more? Did you read and understand what I said the first time I said it? If you did, then why did you ignore it? I said everything at least twice now.

Numquam
aggressivesociopath schreef:

No shit, if you take everything off of the board except the pawn on f4, the rooks, and of course the kings, then the position is a theoretical draw. What does that have to do with anything?

I am not arguing about chess, I am complaining that you are either autistic or have a poor grasp of the English language.  Social skills and the ability to read and write are far more important then a board game or arguing about a board game on the internet. You do understand that right? Of course you don't, if you did you would have found a better use of your time.

I read and understood what you said the first time. I pointed out that Black could win by playing like a monkey. I never represented that this was best play. Can you hear me in there? Should I type louder and wave my arms around more? Did you read and understand what I said the first time I said it? If you did, then why did you ignore it? I said everything at least twice now.

Just look in the mirror. Name calling and attacking people with a different opinion is not acceptable behaviour. I didn't make those posts only for you, but for the OP and others interested. Your toxicity doesn't belong on the forums.

aggressivesociopath
Numquam wrote:
aggressivesociopath schreef:

No shit, if you take everything off of the board except the pawn on f4, the rooks, and of course the kings, then the position is a theoretical draw. What does that have to do with anything?

I am not arguing about chess, I am complaining that you are either autistic or have a poor grasp of the English language.  Social skills and the ability to read and write are far more important then a board game or arguing about a board game on the internet. You do understand that right? Of course you don't, if you did you would have found a better use of your time.

I read and understood what you said the first time. I pointed out that Black could win by playing like a monkey. I never represented that this was best play. Can you hear me in there? Should I type louder and wave my arms around more? Did you read and understand what I said the first time I said it? If you did, then why did you ignore it? I said everything at least twice now.

Just look in the mirror. Name calling and attacking people with a different opinion is not acceptable behaviour. I didn't make those posts only for you, but for the OP and others interested. Your toxicity doesn't belong on the forums.

Claiming that other people should read something before responding to it is toxicity now? I never called you a name; I honestly want to know if you have autism. When you quote someone and write directly to them, you are talking to them and not addressing yourself to a forum or arbitrary space. Your inability to grasp that is one of the reasons why I think I am trying to talk to someone with autism.

Oh yes, I could and probably should find a better use for my time. You did notice that I consider chess and this forum less important than social interactions and literacy, right? I tried to take this forum seriously, but that was years ago.

If you think this post involves name calling or an attack, then I don't see how you can possibly function in modern society.

benonidoni

I keep wanting to root for white and think he still has chances for a draw. Yes, the king is trapped for now but I think if whites rook is active enough he can draw this? sad.png