I don't think I would have given up the open file on move 7; mabe Rf5 instead?
What to do?
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Qg3 is the move here, in my opinion, attacking the backwards pawn at d6, and forcing black's queen to keep an eye on it. After that,
7. .. Rf8 8.Rxf8 Qxf8 9.e5 Qe7 10.exd6 Qe2+ 11.Kg1 Qd1+ 12.Kh2 Qe2+, etc.,
and you should be able to get a draw out of it.
7.Rd1 was ugly. Why not 7.Rf5?
How about 5.Qh2? This attacks the d pawn while also attacking the h pawn still (this means Black can't play 5...Be5 because of 6.Qxh6+). You might then follow up with some Rf3-h3 idea to hit the h6 pawn again. I think this might be a pretty good plan.
marvellosity wrote:
7.Rd1 was ugly. Why not 7.Rf5?
How about 5.Qh2? This attacks the d pawn while also attacking the h pawn still (this means Black can't play 5...Be5 because of 6.Qxh6+). You might then follow up with some Rf3-h3 idea to hit the h6 pawn again. I think this might be a pretty good plan.
Again, it seems that black's weakness is the backwards d-pawn.
AfafBouardi wrote:
I find myself in this situation a lot. I think things are going okay but then I get stuck in a wringing my hands position.
Please examine this segment of the endgame and tell me whether 1. did I have the advantage at some point? 2. What should I have been looking to do?/good options? 3. Where did I lose the advantage decisively?
I have made some notes in the game so you understand what I understood and perhaps didn't understand. I am playing WHITE. Forgot to fill in game details.
Thanks in advance.
I liked your first 2 moves. I feel(this is after just a quick glance-but my gut is telling me you were giving up your advantage from move 3 on) that exchanging the rooks off is bad(that is one less attacker you can bring to the h file- the opponents rook is not really threatening much and can not be coordinated to well with the other pieces.)imop
The exchange of bishop for knight may have been justified after giving up the rook. But, it still feels wrong as the bishop is tied down to h6(if they check it gives you the tempo to bring the other rook into play against h6)
With all that said my feeling is 3. r-e2 is the move with the idea of r-h2 and q-h5xg5. It all actually seems to be falling apart(pull out a board and analyze it-I am pretty confident it is a pretty crushing attack.) Don't forget that if the h pawn were to fall in this position then the black queen would be lost. If for instance 3. r-e2, b-g7 4. r-h3 and bxa1
Hopefully you could follow that and hopefully I actually made sense
Trading your well placed knight for the bishop on move 5 was probably a bit hasty, but not unreasonable because the bishop was a good piece too -- but the idea of it is to follow up with an infiltration with your heavy pieces. This is because passive defense in heavy piece endgames is fatal, more that material you want your rook and queen on open lines (files and diagonals).
That's why the position I noticed most was after 5...Kxg2. The last thing you want to do is abandon the f file, so the natural looking action against the backward h pawn, as you saw, was the wrong idea. I was looking at 6. Qh2-b2 with check and leaving your rook on the f file when your pieces are more active and you should at least be able to draw -- if he's careless and you infiltrate even more (like on f6) then you might win. (Keeping the bishop and knight on the board at move 5 probably gives you more winning chances like some others already said).
Often in heavy piece endgames like this, even if you can force the win of a pawn be careful because if the enemy pieces become permanently active it's not worth it -- best is to jump into open files and in this case the long diagonal looks juicy too. After you're much more active then you can look for weak pawns. For example if you're on the f file and the a1-h8 diagonal with your queen and black wins your d pawn, you would probably have a mating attack -- while at the same time if you won the h pawn but black's pieces are lined up on the f file, he's gong to win that pawn back with interest. Activity > a pawn or 2 (in an endgame like this)
I like the first four moves you made. I wasn't fond of a couple of your opponent's moves.
Overall, you played too passively. And you missed a chance to draw the game late.
5 Nxg7 is bad. Black's Bishop can't bother you, and your Knight is well-placed. In any case, it will be hard for either side to make any progress, due to the closed nature of the position.
7 Rd1 removes the Rook from the only open file and hands the initiative to Black. Better would be 7 Rf5. Your opponent missed an excellent opportunity to cause you problems with 7 ... a4.
8 Qe3 is also bad. You need to accept your mistake on the previous move and challenge Black on the file with 8 Rf1. After the exchange of Rooks, the game is drawish. If Black plays 8... Rf5!, you're in major trouble, because 9 Kh3 is met by Qf7.
11 Qe2 doesn't accomplish anything, as the Pawn can't be saved anyway. It might be better to back away with 11 Kh2. Black missed the boat here. If Black plays Qf6, you can resign, i.e. 12 Kg2 Rf3+, 13 Kh2 Qf4+, 14 Kg1 h4!, followed by h3, capturing your g pawn, and steamrolling you with the two passed pawns.
15 a4! was an good move: the only move that holds the position for you. It forces Black into Zugzwang.
16 Kg3 is the same as admitting defeat. After that it's over. As it is, you can draw as follows. Regardless of whether you can see far enough ahead to find the drawing line, you should realize that 16 Kg3 is a sure loss and that you have nothing to lose by taking a shot and going after Black's pawns.
16 Kf5! Kh5
17 Ke6 g4
18 Kxd6 g3
19 e5
It's pointless to take the other two pawns, as Black will promote and can protect the a pawn before you get to it, then outmaneuver you thereafter.
19... g2
20 e6 g1=Q
21 e7
If nothing but the e-Pawn, Black's Queen, and the Kings were left, Black would have a textbook win here. As it is, Black can't win because the Queen is denied access to the critical d5 square due to White's twice-protected c-Pawn. That square is needed by Black to check White when the King is on d7, so that White is forced either in front of the Pawn or away to c7 or c8, whereupon Black can play ... Qe6, Kd8 Qd6+, making the King get in front of the Pawn and allowing Black's King to advance. If Black can't safely play d5, as is the case here, Black can't win.
Black might try:
21.... Qg3+
21... Qd4+ accomplishes nothing after 22 Kc7! Qe5+, 23 Kd7, as in the game
22 Kd7!
White must not try to save the d-Pawn, which isn't important. With 22 Kc7?? Qe3! (a critical position in this type of ending, and one that Black can't reach if White plays correctly) 23 Kd8, Qd6+, 24 Ke8 Kg6, and White is soon mated.
In this ending, White must never allow Black's Queen to simultaneously reach e6 and stop White from safely promoting the pawn.
22..... Qxd3+
23 Kc7 Qe5
24 Kd7!
Now if White's Pawn weren't on c4, Black could play 24 ... Qd5+, 25 Kc7 Qe6!, 26 Kd8 Qd6+ and win. As it is, Black can do nothing good.
24... Qf4+
25 Kd8!
And not 25... Kc7??, 26 Qe6! as before
25 .... Qf6
26 Kd7 Qd4+
27 Kc7 Qe6
28 Kd7 Qxb3
Black gives up on trying to stop the e-Pawn and tries to win a few of the others.
29 e8=Q+
Unfortunately for Black, White can promote with check.
29... Kg4
30 Qg6+ Kg5
31 Qe5+ Kg6
32 Qxc5
Simplest, although White could also continue checking the King. This move is played to illustrate another Q vs P ending.
32.... Qxa4
33 Qxc6+ Qxc6+
34 Kxc6 a4
35 c5 a3
36 Kb7 a2
37 c6 a1=Q
38 c7
And draws, as Black's King is too far away. For those of you familiar with this ending, you need not go any further. For those not familiar, here is how it would proceed:
38 ... Qb8+
39 Ka7 Qd4+
40 Kb7 Qb4+
41 Ka7 Qc5+
42 Kb7 Qb5+
43 Ka7! Qc6
A critical move in this ending against Knight, Queen, or King pawns.
44 Kb8 Qb3+
In the endings in the previous note, White would now have to get in front of the Pawn, allowing Black's King to approach. Here it doesn't work.
45 Ka8!
Now Black can't take the Pawn because of stalemate. If the pawn were on a7 instead, Black would have to move the Queen off of the b-file, to prevent stalemating White. In a few of these positions, if Black's King is close enough, a win can still be achieved, but not in this case.
45... Qe3
46 Kb7 Qd2
One last shot, hoping White will get cocky and play 47 Ka8??, after which 47... Qc1+ wins. Before you say that it's not possible for White to be that foolish, I saw exactly that happen in a tournament game, and White, a 1700 USCF rated player, was plenty embarrassed.
47 Kb8
And the position is a draw.
Hi TomBarrister,
Trying to go through your line, but can't get past this:
22..... Qxd3+
23 Kc7 Qe5
24 Kd7!
Did you mean 23.... Qe4?
Also,
24 Kd7!
24... Qf4+
25 Kd8!
Qf4 wouldn't be check... actually it looks like you flipped the board and just miscounted on those. (26 Kd7 Qd4+ 27 Kc7 Qe6[flipped] 28 Kd7 Qxb3)
Other than that it looks good. Thanks for explaining the rest. Hope this helps anyone else that goes through the line.
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I find myself in this situation a lot. I think things are going okay but then I get stuck in a wringing my hands position.
Please examine this segment of the endgame and tell me whether 1. did I have the advantage at some point? 2. What should I have been looking to do?/good options? 3. Where did I lose the advantage decisively?
I have made some notes in the game so you understand what I understood and perhaps didn't understand. I am playing WHITE. Forgot to fill in game details.
Thanks in advance.