is it correct to resign as a beginner if you’re losing badly?

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llama47
Carwasher_Superdrunk wrote:
Ziryab wrote:

I might add that beginners are often playing against beginners. None of your opponents should be assumed to know how to finish the game. I've taught many hundreds of young players chess, have watched many thousands of their game. It takes a lot of time before the vast majority can perform even the simplest of checkmates.

If you are playing someone who knows how to checkmate, you are getting a free lesson. Especially if you resist as strenuously as possible.


You are missing the point.

Knowing when and why to resign is an important part of chess. That's because you aren't playing some faceless entity or an engine; you are actually playing another human being, and as silly as this sounds, it's important to at least try and treat each other with some dignity and respect.

When you play on a queen down, what you are really saying to your opponent (without actually putting it into words) is "I expect you to blunder your queen back at some point." In reality, it's a way of calling someone a noob without actually coming out and saying it.

Nevertheless, I have encountered numerous players who, for whatever reason, refuse to resign despite massive material deficits and, when that happens, I have no choice but to give them what they appear to be asking for: a solid thrashing over the board.

I don't like to do that, but unless they resign, they leave me with little choice.

Ziryab's advice is good.

In one OTB tournament game I was 1800 vs a 2200 (master).

Near the end of the game, I was down on time and position. I knew my position was dead lost, but I didn't immediately see the key idea to break it down. So I kept playing because I wanted him to show me how a player much stronger than me would approach the situation. After that I resigned.

It wasn't rude of me at all, and he was happy to analyze with me after the game.

Carwasher_Superdrunk
llama47 wrote:
Carwasher_Superdrunk wrote:
Ziryab wrote:

I might add that beginners are often playing against beginners. None of your opponents should be assumed to know how to finish the game. I've taught many hundreds of young players chess, have watched many thousands of their game. It takes a lot of time before the vast majority can perform even the simplest of checkmates.

If you are playing someone who knows how to checkmate, you are getting a free lesson. Especially if you resist as strenuously as possible.


You are missing the point.

Knowing when and why to resign is an important part of chess. That's because you aren't playing some faceless entity or an engine; you are actually playing another human being, and as silly as this sounds, it's important to at least try and treat each other with some dignity and respect.

When you play on a queen down, what you are really saying to your opponent (without actually putting it into words) is "I expect you to blunder your queen back at some point." In reality, it's a way of calling someone a noob without actually coming out and saying it.

Nevertheless, I have encountered numerous players who, for whatever reason, refuse to resign despite massive material deficits and, when that happens, I have no choice but to give them what they appear to be asking for: a solid thrashing over the board.

I don't like to do that, but unless they resign, they leave me with little choice.

Ziryab's advice is good.

In one OTB tournament game I was 1800 vs a 2200 (master).

Near the end of the game, I was down on time and position. I knew my position was dead lost, but I didn't immediately see the key idea to break it down. So I kept playing because I wanted him to show me how a player much stronger than me would approach the situation. After that I resigned.

It wasn't rude of me at all, and he was happy to analyze with me after the game.


That's a very apples to oranges comparison. What you are talking about is an OTB game between very experienced players, and in reality, you were really interested in how he would converted a winning position into an actual win. This is possibly the most difficult thing to do even for experienced players. Converting a win a queen up by comparison is trivial.

Rick2309
Carwash - I’d rather take a thrashing and learn something than resign and never get to a point where I’m in an end game, I know it’s etiquette but I’m talking about for beginners l, is it beneficial for me to resign when I could try and learn how to gain back an advantage when an obviously better player would thrash me but I’m playing other 500 rating guys and girls like me?! And how can I learn to capitalise on a strong position if my opponent resigns all the time? I’m saying beginners shouldn’t abide by chess etiquette and okay to the death for learning purposes
Rick2309
And thanks llama I really respect good chess players and I aspire to be at least a mediocre one haha
Ziryab
Carwasher_Superdrunk wrote:
Ziryab wrote:
NervesofButter wrote:

If by beginner you mean that you know how the pieces move and thats about it?  I would suggest always playing on.  That is how you learn, and you never know.  Your opponent can always mess it up.

 

^^^^
This

I might add that beginners are often playing against beginners. None of your opponents should be assumed to know how to finish the game. I've taught many hundreds of young players chess, have watched many thousands of their game. It takes a lot of time before the vast majority can perform even the simplest of checkmates.

If you are playing someone who knows how to checkmate, you are getting a free lesson. Especially if you resist as strenuously as possible.


You are missing the point.

 

Wrong.

I offer my advice from the perspective of more than two decades of teaching and coaching beginners, lifting many to intermediate players, and watching some grow to become my teachers. 

The OP self-identifies as a beginner. 

For an intermediate player, such as yourself, you probably should not drag on lost positions. Even so, such players routinely stalemate their opponents, such as in a game I played this morning. After demonstrating clear thinking to execute a relatively deep tactic, the poser missed a mate in one, then a mate in two, and finally stalemated me.

I had nothing to learn, but have found through decades of playing online that with the clock ticking, even solid intermediate players may fail to execute an elementary checkmate.

If you find such behavior disrespectful, good! I think your opinion on this matter is hogwash, too.

laurengoodkindchess

Hi! My name is Lauren Goodkind and I’m a respected  chess coach and chess YouTuber based in California: 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCP5SPSG_sWSYPjqJYMNwL_Q

 

I wouldn't resign if you are in a very bad position since your opponent can make silly mistakes.   Sometimes, beginners don't know how to finish somebody off in a completely winning position.  Also, your opponent might accidentally stalemate you.  I have seen many beginners do this.  

I hope that this helps you.  

 

Rick2309
Thanks Ziryab, and Butter, and even carwash, although to be honest carwash you’re coming across as one of those gun toting Americans that will set Donald trump on me if I don’t resign in a game of chess haha
Ziryab
laurengoodkindchess wrote:

Hi! My name is Lauren Goodkind and I’m a respected  chess coach and chess YouTuber based in California: 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCP5SPSG_sWSYPjqJYMNwL_Q

 

I wouldn't resign if you are in a very bad position since your opponent can make silly mistakes.   Sometimes, beginners don't know how to finish somebody off in a completely winning position.  Also, your opponent might accidentally stalemate you.  I have seen many beginners do this.  

I hope that this helps you.  

 

 

Hey, Lauren! I read your 50 Poison Pieces in the past week or so and am using ideas from it in my coaching. 

llama47

Mostly etiquette is about wasting time...

In other words, as long as you're not using a lot of time moving your lone king vs their many pieces, it's fine.

I've played all the way to mate in OTB tournament games. Usually when the mate is forced and I think it's pretty, I let them play it. This is uncommon for my rating range, and some might even be offended that I make them play the moves... but I've always moved quickly, and so I've never had someone be upset with me after the game.

So again, it's more about the clock. Taking a long think after a blunder? No problem. Thinking a long time to find one last trick in a lost position? No problem. But taking a long think on every move when you're behind 10 pieces or only have a king? That's a bit rude. That's more important than whether or not you resign at some unspoken "correct" time.

Stil1
Carwasher_Superdrunk wrote:

I'd love to hear what lessons you can learn to improve while a full queen down. Unless there is something like a forced stalemate or a serious time control problem, there is nothing you can learn from such positions.

Playing without a queen isn't the end of the world.

If you're resourceful, and your opponent isn't careful, there's a chance you might turn the game around.

And even if you lose, you might still discover some useful defensive ideas along the way, that can help you in your future games.

Rick2309
Ok yes butter I appreciate the advice
Ziryab
Stil1 wrote:
Carwasher_Superdrunk wrote:

I'd love to hear what lessons you can learn to improve while a full queen down. Unless there is something like a forced stalemate or a serious time control problem, there is nothing you can learn from such positions.

Playing without a queen isn't the end of the world.

 

 

When my young chess players want to play me in our after school club, I remove my queen from the board before we begin. They usually give me their queen through a blunder in the first ten to fifteen moves.

Not a queen down, but I played on in this hopelessly lost game against one of my city's top high school players.

 

 

Kisses47

Sometimes if you are playing really poorly, the opponent gets over-confident and makes a blunder and you end up winning.  So I would say generally do not give up since 1- you may win because of a blunder or 2- you'll continue to learn.

On the other hand, if you are doing really awful, beyond any reasonable hope, then go ahead and quit

aleister_the_invoker

Depend on what are you trying to do, win or learn. if you fell into a trap then just resign and analyze the game if your goal is to learn, but if your goal is to win then keep playing because the opponent might blunder his pieces. when your goal is to learn, resign or not is depended on the condition if you switch places with your opponent can you convert that winning position into a win, if you are not sure then keep playing because it means that there are still more to learn. If you are sure that you can convert that position into a win then there is no point to keep playing, right ?

Ziryab
aleister_the_invoker wrote:

Depend on what are you trying to do, win or learn. if you fell into a trap then just resign and analyze the game if your goal is to learn, but if your goal is to win then keep playing because the opponent might blunder his pieces. when your goal is to learn, resign or not is depended on the condition if you switch places with your opponent can you convert that winning position into a win, if you are not sure then keep playing because it means that there are still more to learn. If you are sure that you can convert that position into a win then there is no point to keep playing, right ?

 

This switch places with your opponent notion is at the core of when I advocate resignation. Turn the board around, put Magnus in the chair across. If the game is a certain win, it is time to resign.

Even so, one’s opponent must be considered. Are they skilled enough to deliver the full point. All beginners (a subjective term) should be forced to play until checkmate.

mrizzo14

I often find that when I win my opponent's queen, I take a big sigh of relief and let my guard down as if the game is over. This loss of focus could easily lead to a blunder, especially if coupled with frustration at my opponent not resigning.

Nennerb

play it out and resign right before you are about to lose

please_can_i_win_a_game

The majority of the responses here are absolutely great advice.

I resign after a misclick. I know it's horrible etiquette (and possibly seen by some as ratings manipulation - I completely understand). But a misclick is a death-sentence for me because there's honestly no way I'm able to figure out how to regain a proper position.

CouldntFindAGoodUsername

Play until the end! You might even win or atleast get a draw. So I suggest to not resign.

jetoba

If you are going to play on then you may as well play on to mate (some beginners want a chance to get the killer knight/killer bishop/etc. achievements).

If your opponent is a kid under 500 there is a good chance (maybe even 50%) that K+Q vs K will be drawn and a better chance (maybe even 90%) that K+2Q vs K will be stalemate.

You can take your time analyzing but don't just waste both players' time delaying your moves just to annoy the other person.

 

I've never played an arena event but from what I've heard the key is to play (and preferably win) as many games as possible in a fixed period of time and playing on in an obviously lost position would reduce the tournament scoring opportunities of both you and your opponent.