What to do about the "Berserker" player?

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MarkGrubb

I looked at a few of your games. Both sides are hanging pieces and failing to spot these opportunities. This is normal for beginners. It takes time for board vision to develop. Watch John Bartholomew's Chess Fundamentals video on Undefended Pieces on you tube. I saw a common theme is your opponents attacking the f-pawn in the opening. Watch some videos on an opening called the Italian Game as f7/2 weakness is a theme for this opening. You will get some ideas on what your opponent is trying and how to play against this. Guioco Piano and Fried Liver Attack are both popular lines in the Italian Game so google these. Googling f7 weakness should also find some useful stuff.

MarkGrubb

It's often called f7 weakness but f2 is also a weakness for white in the opening. Look up Traxler Counter Attack for ideas on how black can attack f2 weakness. I'm not suggesting you memorize and play these lines, only understand the themes/ideas so you are better prepared. It will help you with the question "what are my opponents intentions and how should I reply?".

MarkGrubb

Finally, you castle very late for a beginner and make what looks like unnecessary pawn moves in the early opening. Google Opening Principles and then follow them. Push only your e and d pawns, get you knights and bishops out and castle as soon as your kingside is free. Respond to threats of course, but if no immediate threats get developed and secure your king, then hoover up all the hanging material 😁.

JackAustralia

There is a simple defence against the wayward queen attack that is worth memorising. Google it or see: https://www.chess.com/forum/view/chess-openings/c20-king-pawn-game-wayward-queen-attack I am a beginner player, and it is very common in my games. The refutation is simple really and it really helps to know it (ie developing the queenside knight to protect the centre pawn, c6 and then blocking with the knight and fianchetto the kingside bishop) 

LeiJChess

There is a way to defend against such attacks, since they would be invincible if they didn’t have flaws. If you defend properly you’ll probably be better for the rest of the game since he will have no development. 

OpenSquirrel

As mentioned earlier analyse your games, if you are only able to analyse a limited number of games focus on those where you loose to this type of opening and work out what you'd do different next time you're confronted by this type of position. 

LeeEuler

As you get stronger and have more experience it will become second nature. Bringing out the queen early opens it up for attacks and discoveries, meaning you get to develop your pieces while your opponent wastes tempo. Good luck on your playing!

11PopPop

A new challenge....

I played "Mafia...." (I'd post it, but I don't know how to do that!)

He/she started out developing the middle ... and SWITCHED to berserker.

It totally threw me off.  I never regained my balance. Still, it was a fun game.

blueemu
11PopPop wrote:

A new challenge....

I played "Mafia...." (I'd post it, but I don't know how to do that!)



MarkGrubb

You could have blocked the queen check with your bishop then castled and looked to centralised the rook on the e file. On the next move you could have retook with bishop, castled etc. By retaking with the king you lost castling privileges. The bishop was a useful resource but you overlooked it. Your board vision will improve with time. I found doing regular puzzles also helped.

XavisDOS

don't worry everything takes time to learn, especially chess

11PopPop

This game gives me a headache.

I played Thom.  We started out looking like a conventional game.

THEN ... he went Berseker on me with his Queen.  (He said it was the Blackburne Shilling Gambit Trap ... WHILE  he was killing me with it!)  I'll have to look-up that one....

[Moving to a Gold membership has been helpful.  The post-game analysis is very educational.  (And I can practice with more puzzles.)]

I *finally* captured his Queen, thinking I'd put a stop to the Berserker.  But NO...!!!  He kept right up with Berserker with his Bishop and a Rook.

He had me down to my King ONLY ... but the game was a Draw ... which (honestly) felt like a win after all that craziness.

https://www.chess.com/live/game/5493225795

nklristic

You do not have to look at the variation for now. You have some elementary mistakes which you should tend to first. Let me give you some examples.

Why didn't you just save your knight with 5. Nf3? I mean, he gave you a great gift by playing Qe7. That was an atrocious move by him, and if you didn't hang a bishop here, you would be much better. Nf3 and you are a knight up for a pawn. It is the most logical move, it is not something complex, and you have a lot of time to find it.

5. Bc4 is just looking for trouble. Knight is an undefended piece and up for the taking as you didn't save it (I know that opening principles says that you shouldn't move the same piece twice, but if he gave you that present, why not taking it, after checking that you are not getting mated of course or something like that), and now bishop on c4 is undefended as well which is just screaming tactics here.  

Next move, you just gave him the bishop and only then you put your knight out of the harms way. It happens of course, but now you are in trouble as you wasted a move, and doing that in the opening can be bad. Instead of just retreating the knight, you gave him the bishop first and only then the knight is retreated which is giving him a pawn for free by the way.

Move after that you hang a pawn on d2 instead of simply castling and getting your king to safety and defending that pawn at the same time. After that, it is a completely busted position. It is all understandable, we all make mistakes, especially if we make one mistake, things can go bad really fast.

My recommendations... First of all, if you have the time, play at least 30 minute per side games, and take your time with the moves. You will see the difference, blunders will soon be less often. Don't rush, as one mistake can be fatal, and stream of mistakes certainly is fatal.

Undefended pieces are sometimes ok, although not that often, but when you can, don't keep your pieces undefended for too long. 

Try to train tactics either here, or on chess tempo (half an hour a day is enough if you have the time). Don't try to do too many, concentrate on getting them right. When you are training, take your time with making a move, try not to guess the solution, but try to understand the position and only then make a move.

In the opening, try to castle as soon as you can for now. Don't learn specific opening lines, you have much bigger issues with hanging your pieces that you will get in order with practice. When you see the opponent queen out early take extra time trying not to blunder, as taking a queen out early is in most cases bad idea.

I wish you all the best.

11PopPop

Thank you, nklristic. I appreciate the review and comments.

The analysis -- especially the Key Moments -- has been very useful.  (Nf3 was probably the goof which sent me spiraling down.) YOU caught that right away.  I didn't see it until the Key Moments "thing" made fun of me for missing that one.

Regarding 30 min games:  I did that for a while, but it's more difficult to get opponents.  Also, I *usually* am not rushed in the 15|10 format.  I also tried the 20 minute game.  It didn't help.  The clock pressure was ALWAYS an issue for this novice.

BUT ... I do find myself periodically playing someone who makes VERY FAST moves time after time.  Sometimes this speed player gets ME playing too quickly also.  (I don't even have one month playing this crazy game.  I have a BUNCH to learn...!)

nklristic

Just don't feel frustrated, everything will be better after a bit of practice.

Getting into time trouble in 15 minute games is normal, that is why I suggested 30 minute games. If it is tougher to find a game, well if it takes a few minutes more, so be it. You don't have to play many games a day after all, even 1 is more than fine. I would try to play as best games as I can, and not feeling rushed as a beginner is pretty important. 

Oh yeah, I would suggest that you download something to analyze your games with as well. I use free pgn chessbook. It has Stockfish 8 in it. You just download pgn file after your game, load it in, and try to see your mistakes. At first there will be many things you do not understand but after a time you will understand more and more.

If you are interested in improvement, and have the time, you might check some youtube channels as well if you have the time. Perhaps you are already familiar with those, but if not, I could point you into right direction.

MarkGrubb

Mirroring fast moves by your opponent is understandable but try to get it under control. Your opponent may knock out quick moves in the opening if they know it well. As you improve, in longer time controls, it's good to be suspicious of quick play. Your opponent may have overlooked a tactical opportunity or weakness.

11PopPop

I just played another Berserker, HisokaA. When I realized what he was doing, I nearly resigned. It's just not fun to play these guys.

Then I decided to try and last as long as possible. I'd lost several pieces, so I kinda "counter-berserkered" him with my Queen. (I really don't like this kind of chess.)

But I gained so much ground on pieces ... he resigned. First time I nearly threw in the towel and chose to fight. Maybe I'm learning.  (Even though I missed a mate move toward the end.)

nklristic

I am looking at your last game... First of all, it is good that you play 30 minutes games per side. Congratulations on the rollercoaster win, it happens from time to time. happy.png Now for slightly worse things... What I noticed is that you had 20 minutes left in the end. My proposition is this. Slow down. If it means making less mistakes but losing on time a few times, that is still better learning wise than this.

Second. Your first move after he moves his queen is h6. Try to articulate for yourself why did you play that move. Because that move doesn't do anything. The human mistake here would be for instance Nf6. You would lose a pawn but that mistake is understandable (your thoughts would be something like this : "I want to develop a piece on the natural square and I am attacking a queen"). It would still be bad as it loses a pawn but it is more logical. Of course that Nc6 has to be played here. You keep the pawn and develop a piece. And if he plays Bc4 trying to checkmate, you just play g6 attacking the queen and possibly making room for Bg7 developing your bishop.

So your thoughts should be like this: I want to develop my pieces, I don't want to lose time on moves like h6 in the beginning as they do not develop my pieces.

If you see an early queen move you have to set off a sense of danger and take even more time as you do not want to get mated or lose material. But still in that case try to find moves that do both things: Answer to the threat and develop. They exist, you just need to take your time and find them. You took 15 seconds for h6, that is not enough on this level. You need to see what does he do with Qh5. Of course that he wants to checkmate and he probably would like to play Bc4, but he also does attack e5 with this queen move.

Next move, same pattern - 10 seconds on Be7 and that bishop is the only thing defending g7. So you undefended a pawn and droped it as well. I understand this because you have already made the first mistake. After the first mistake, us weaker players can make many mistakes in a row. So one other advice. Try to compose yourself after the first mistake and take more time in order not to make another one.  It is not easy, I know, it happens to me as well, but just be aware that this is a pattern how multiple mistakes happen and try to not make them. 

The bad rook move after first 2 mistakes is another example. You probably already given up mentally and you just made a bad move (even though you've won in the end, I believe that was your mental state when you played that rook move).

So to conclude: 

1. Play slower in general (When you play 30 minute games, you should probably aim to have less than 10 minutes left in the end (for reasonably longer games) - moves wise longer games I mean)
2. Always think about developing in the opening
3. If you see an early queen move, take even more time and try to see what is the threat. What can queen take and can you be checkmated in the next move? If the queen can take something see if you have the move that stops the threat and develop at the same time. 

MorphysMayhem
baddogno wrote:

Yes there is, but you have to be good enough to recognize the weaknesses the berserk play has created and punish them for it.  Alas, this takes time and experience.  Console yourself with the knowledge that specialists in this kind of unprincipled play will soon plateau and languish at a low level while you continue to get better.

Great answer. One piece of simple advice I would give you for now is whenever possible is to develop one of your pieces or move forward a (protected) pawn such that it attacks their queen forcing them to keep wasting time moving the queen while you gain an advantage in development. Just keep an eye out for what the queen may be attacking of yours, it is a pretty strong piece after all. 

Good luck my friend! 

11PopPop
nklristic wrote:
 
"I am looking at your last game... First of all, it is good that you play 30 minutes games per side. Congratulations on the rollercoaster win, it happens from time to time. happy.png Now for slightly worse things... What I noticed is that you had 20 minutes left in the end. My proposition is this. Slow down. If it means making less mistakes but losing on time a few times, that is still better learning wise than this.
 
Good advice.  I still (sometimes) find myself matching” the speed play of my opponents.  I thought I had gotten over that, but….
 
 

"Second. Your first move after he moves his queen is h6. Try to articulate for yourself why did you play that move. Because that move doesn't do anything.”  
 
My initial thought was to create an escape for my Rook, but I know that was just a panic response. A much more sound move to his 2 Qh6 would be N c6, to protect my e5 pawn … and check.


"If you see an early queen move you have to set off a sense of danger and take even more time as you do not want to get mated or lose material. But still in that case try to find moves that do both things: Answer to the threat and develop. They exist, you just need to take your time and find them. You took 15 seconds for h6, that is not enough on this level. You need to see what does he do with Qh5. Of course that he wants to checkmate and he probably would like to play Bc4, but he also does attack e5 with this queen move.
 
I still marvel at you players who *instantly* recognize, “He’s playing ___ gambit” (or) “He moved his Q too soon, so he’s vulnerable to ‘X’ counter-attack.” (I guess having played for seven weeks (today) I should realize I need to walk before I run.)


"So to conclude: 

1. Play slower in general (When you play 30 minute games, you should probably aim to have less than 10 minutes left in the end (for reasonably longer games) - moves wise longer games I mean)
2. Always think about developing in the opening
3. If you see an early queen move, take even more time and try to see what is the threat. What can queen take and can you be checkmated in the next move? If the queen can take something see if you have the move that stops the threat and develop at the same time.” 
 
Thank you (Really!) for taking the time to help.  I do appreciate it!