Why am I almost 1000 points higher in puzzle rating VS rapid?

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ChessSpeaksForItselfGG

I am 700 rapid rating and almost 1600 in tactics... How much do tactics actually help?   It seems like everyone I play is also high at tactics based on how they play.  Is the websites tactic rating wrong?

magipi

Puzzle ratings are wildly inflated. In my suspicion, they calibrated those ratings for a user who calculates nothing, just plays a semi-random move almost immediately and hopes for the best. And in my experience, this is exactly how most people "solve" puzzles. Therefore anyone who is willing to spend time on a puzzle and think about it will have a huge puzzle rating.

This however changes nothing, puzzles are still extremely important.

ChessSpeaksForItselfGG

@magipi I also noticed that your puzzle rating is 1000+ higher than your in-game rating.

I really hope that this website fixes the puzzle rating discrepancies. For 1 of my 3 puzzles today it was rated over 1400 but I've seen 600s do that in game.

Hoffmann713

The importance of solving puzzles is greatly overrated, from my personal point of view. I'm quite sure, because after solving thausands of puzzles I still play the same as I did when I solved my first one. My playing strenght is practically unchanged.

They are quite useful as a workout. But the truth is that solving puzzles is ( for me ) very pleasant, that's why I keep solving them.

magipi
Hoffmann713 wrote:

after solving thausands of puzzles I still play the same as I did when I solved my first one. My playing strenght is practically unchanged.

The only reasonable explanation is that you are wrong grin.png

Hoffmann713
magipi ha scritto:
Hoffmann713 wrote:

after solving thausands of puzzles I still play the same as I did when I solved my first one. My playing strenght is practically unchanged.

The only reasonable explanation is that you are wrong

Yet it is so. I haven't made any significant progress. In addition, before I also played more aggresssive, and I was able to find some ( simple ) tactical combinations more easily than now...

magipi
Hoffmann713 wrote:
magipi ha scritto:
Hoffmann713 wrote:

after solving thausands of puzzles I still play the same as I did when I solved my first one. My playing strenght is practically unchanged.

The only reasonable explanation is that you are wrong

Yet it is so. I haven't made any significant progress. In addition, before I also played more aggresssive, and I was able to find some ( simple ) tactical combinations more easily than now...

If that is so (which I heavily doubt), there must be some other explanation. What you say goes against elementary logic, and also against the experience of all other chessplayers.

Hoffmann713

Sound strange, I know. But maybe there is an explanation.

Puzzles are said to be important to the so-called "patterns recognition". Perhaps my problem could be an inability to memorize patterns ( and consequently, recognize them in real game )

magipi
Hoffmann713 wrote:

Sound strange, I know. But maybe there is an explanation.

Puzzles are said to be important to the so-called "patterns recognition". Perhaps my problem could be an inability to memorize patterns ( and consequently, recognize them in real game )

I don't think a human with that condition would be able to speak or read (or in general, function as a normal human). So it seems unlikely that you have it. There must be something else.

Ziryab

I had an interesting discussion Saturday at a chess tournament. A man playing in the tournament (I was directing) mentioned that he had heard that it does no good to learn Morphy's games because you won't get those positions. He said he has memorized some Morphy games, but his opponents always deviate by move five.

What then, can one learn from Morphy's games, if anything?

Pattern recognition requires understanding. One must recognize the pattern and the ideas.

These two puzzles published in 1737 by Philipp Stamma may serve to illustrate. They both contain the same idea: zugzwang forcing an unfortunate losing pawn move.

Hoffmann713

Well, the facts are these. I solved my first puzzle eight months ago, right here ( never tried it before ). Since then, I've solved more than 7000, but my playing level ( look at rapid rating ) has grown very little. What I've always complained about is the fact that those combinations I can find in the puzzles I can never find in the real game. And I've always attributed this to the fact that it's easy to find them when you know they're there, difficult when no one tells you.

Perhaps another explanation could be the following. My weaknesses in the game ( bad understanding of principles, tendency to get distracted and make inevitable blunders etc. ) are so important that even an improvement in calculation has no influence. That's why I basically convinced myself that solving puzzles is ultimately less important than other factors in order to improve at chess.

But at this point I'm curious. Is it possible that I am the only case? Does anyone like me uselessly solved so many puzzles without real benefit?

Ziryab

7000 is not very many. Eight months is a short time.

Everyone seeking instant improvement in chess will be disappointed. You are one of legions.

I’ve solved over 10,000 puzzles in 2023. 1/3 of those on this site. Most in apps on the iPad and books. Most of these are selected according to specific criteria (thematic arrangement), rather than random, as you find solving on this site. Knowing the theme makes it easier to solve, but also does more to build pattern recognition.

I’ve also had many solving sessions on this site and on ChessTempo where I only solve puzzles I have failed in the past.

RussBell

The answer to the OP's question should be obvious....

It's because he takes more time to think about and solve a puzzle than he does to make a move in a speed chess (rapid) game...

Play Longer Time Controls...

For many at the beginner-novice level, speed chess tends to be primarily an exercise in moving pieces around faster than your opponent while avoiding checkmate, in hopes that his/her clock runs out sooner than yours. And/or hoping to notice and exploit your opponent’s blunders while hoping they don't notice yours. The reason for this is that in speed chess there is little time to think about what you should be doing.

It makes sense that taking more time to think about what you should be doing would promote improvement in your chess skills and results. Therefore one way to improve your chess is to play longer time controls, including "daily" chess, so you have time to think about what you should be doing.

This is not to suggest that you should necessarily play exclusively slow or daily time controls, but they should be a significant percentage of your games, at least as much, if not more so than speed games which, while they may be fun, do almost nothing to promote an understanding of how to play the game well.

Here's what IM Jeremy Silman, well-known chess book author, has to say on the topic...
https://www.chess.com/article/view/longer-time-controls-are-more-instructive

And Dan Heisman, well-known chess teacher and chess book author…
https://web.archive.org/web/20140627052239/http:/www.chesscafe.com/text/heisman16.pdf

https://www.chess.com/blog/RussBell/dan-heisman-resources

and the experience of a FIDE Master...
https://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/how-blitz-and-bullet-rotted-my-brain-don-t-let-it-rot-yours

As for learning what you should be doing...

Improving Your Chess - Resources for Beginners and Beyond

https://www.chess.com/blog/RussBell/improving-your-chess-resources-for-beginners-and-beyond

https://www.chess.com/blog/RussBell

Ziryab

@RussBell’s self-promotion would be irritating if not for the fact that his content is generally quite good. Do yourself a favor and follow his links.

RussBell

@ziryab -

It's not about self-promotion, it is about helping those who ask for help.

That's why I have put the time and effort into creating my blog in the first place.

I assume that your very frequent forum posts are not about self promotion.

There's a well-known saying about people who live in glass houses.

Otherwise thank you for the props, even if they are backhanded.

Hoffmann713
Ziryab ha scritto:

7000 is not very many. Eight months is a short time.

Good ! Then I'll continue to solve puzzles and I'll wait for the results to come in. ( and even if they don't arrive, after all it's not that important, I will always enjoy playing chess ).

Thanks also to RussBell.

Ziryab
Hoffmann713 wrote:
Ziryab ha scritto:

7000 is not very many. Eight months is a short time.

Good ! Then I'll continue to solve puzzles and I'll wait for the results to come in. ( and even if they don't arrive, after all it's not that important, I will always enjoy playing chess ).

Thanks also to RussBell.

Don't limit yourself to this site's puzzles. Use books, too.

Ziryab
RussBell wrote:

@ziryab -

It's not about self-promotion, it is about helping those who ask for help.

That's why I have put the time and effort into creating my blog in the first place.

I assume that your very frequent forum posts are not about self promotion.

There's a well-known saying about people who live in glass houses.

Otherwise thank you for the props, even if they are back-handed.

I push my blog, too. Glass house indeed!

RussBell

@Ziryab -

I must say that your content is generally helpful as well.

TheRealBlueSwan

I know the feeling. I have a pretty good puzzle rating too, but yeah, there's no real relation between ones puzzle rating and ones ELO when playing.

As for whether or not puzzles help your game, I think they do to some extent, but you also need to play longer time controls and analyze your games properly. Something which I also fail to do.