Is this position legal?

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chaotic_iak
TW2000 wrote:

Actually, if people are really looking for something difficult, then illegal positions are actually harder. It is easier to prove something can happen than proving that it can't happen.

That's kind of the point; proving something is impossible is more tiresome (and boring) than showing something is possible. Besides, a well-designed retro problem usually has a very unique way to unlock it, which may be equally hard to find as you attempt to prove it's impossible. (See this, where my mistake is at the very last step, so the answer (which is positive, "possible") will require you to tread through my very same steps and then a little more.)

Re your problem: I bet last move was fxe6 e.p. Time to go to solve it...

chaotic_iak

Aww, bummer. The position is possible; last moves were -1... f5xNe6+ -2. Nd8-e6+. Black promoted a pawn to a knight. Nothing fancy, actually. It would have been great if it could be proven Black didn't make any promotion or something; the proof that en passant was impossible is actually neat, even if on the easy side.

KM101
Garrus_Vakarian wrote:
 

That position is legal.

BigDoggProblem
TW2000 wrote:
BigDoggProblem wrote:
Elubas wrote:

I don't see why a retro puzzle can't be illegal. It can at least keep you honest. But of course it would reward the lazy people who don't feel like trying to solve it as well, true.

It's not that it can't, it's just that hardly anyone wants that to be the answer (composers or solvers).

Actually, if people are really looking for something difficult, then illegal positions are actually harder. It is easier to prove something can happen than proving that it can't happen.

There is nothing inherently harder about illegal vs. legal positions. Some illegal positions are very easy to prove illegal, such as...

Justified08

like how this one is also illegal

BigDoggProblem
Justified08 wrote:

like how this one is also illegal

Yes - more obvious 'bad pawn structures'.

There is also the unretractable check:



Eliclax
BigDoggProblem wrote:

There is nothing inherently harder about illegal vs. legal positions. Some illegal positions are very easy to prove illegal, such as...

 

Yes, but the vast majority of illegal positions are more complex than spotting some pawn structure like that. 

BigDoggProblem
TW2000 wrote:
BigDoggProblem wrote:

There is nothing inherently harder about illegal vs. legal positions. Some illegal positions are very easy to prove illegal, such as...

 

Yes, but the vast majority of illegal positions are more complex than spotting some pawn structure like that. 

I'm not so sure. Got any proof?

Gm_andrewfeng

How about this?

BigDoggProblem
Gm_andrewfeng wrote:

How about this?

I count 9 white pawn captures required and 15 missing black units, so yes it's legal.

shoopi

Here are some old puzzles made by cobra91 (he hasn't been active on these forums for years):

 

1.

2.

3. (white to move)

 

4.

 

5. (white to move)

 

6.

7. Also, here is the actuall first "retro" puzzle I composed (easy). I found out that I was trying to be funny in the original thread, like 5 years ago, so I added the original text if anyone is interested (let the cringe begin...):

"Background:

1) The black army invited the white king to a party - with a promise that there will be no checkmates involved. Surprisingly, the white king did not make it to the after party.

2) You have been assigned by the Federal Union of Chess (FUC) to investigate the crime scene and find out what the hell happened.

Legal or illegal? - that is up to you to decide." (last 4 moves?)

shoopi

P.S. the original solver of my puzzle requested to join the ranks of the Federal Union of Chess (FUC), but he had been rejected due to his past expressions on this site (he actually said publicly in these forums that he "prefers white" and that he "doesn't like black"... some people) 

P-K4_e5_7163

It's clear to ME that black took (1)...h2xg1=R+ (2)Nh3xg1. I'm too lazy to go any farther, BUT, I'm sure there was another White piece dancing around that got captured on move -2.

P-K4_e5_7163

Also, here's "mine" (saw this in a book)

Here are the rules:

(1) No visible piece (excluding pawns) have moved.

(2) There is an unknown on h6. (In other words, there's some piece there that's neither a king or a black pawn.)

(3) The kings were never in check.

(4) White started without his knights.

Remellion

@shoopi: I've been through that other long thread which was interesting too. The second puzzle though appears to be by T.R. Dawson 1911, as cited by myllyniemi in this thread.

shoopi

Ah, I see. I just assumed he composed it, but if I recall he did post some unoriginal puzzles without giving credit to the composer (maybe he wanted to avoid people searching for the answer?).

 

Thanks for letting me know anyway.

chaotic_iak

e4e5dude (#1433):

Very satisfying.

Cyklope

@shoopi: the last one should be Rg6-g3 - f4xg3. Nh3-f4 - g3xh2. Nf4-h3 - Ng1-f3+. Nh3-g1 - h2xg1#

Cyklope

shouldn't be, I think there are 7 captutable pieces, one bisshop, two rooks, two knigths and a Queen. Furthermore there is the h8 pawn.

shoopi

A bishop cannot be captured since both could never get out and are useless. The h2 pawn however could be captured. The only trick is that it cannot be captured on h2.

 

P.S. if anyone feels like solving any of the other puzzles feel free to do so.