Italian Game: Two Knights Defense Beginner Question/Analyze

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Avatar of logicsound
Just started playing again after a long break,  this game really confused me.  I was on the defense from the beginning and can't really pinpoint where I went wrong in the opening moves 1-7.  After move 7 I basically lost focus and made terrible moves but I really want to understand what I need to do to avoid getting in this spot again.
I ran it through the analyzer and it said my first 6 moves were fine but then it tells me 7. Nd8 was bad ( I played this to add protection to the F7 square)  and I should have played 7. ND4 but that allows him to play Qxf7+ which gives me one move Kd8 and now I can't castle and I am in a very bad spot.
I am confused because the analyzer tells me my moves are fine but I don't really feel fine with his Queen on F7 and my King unable to castle and running... 
Hoping someone can shed some light on how I could have played this opening better or avoided getting into this mess.
Thanks!

Avatar of GrandmasterForester

after Nd4 Qxf7+ Kd8 Black Is better because white is left without another attacking move and blacks threats are too big to defend. Black is threatening Nxc2+ winning a rook, if white goes Na3 or Kd1 all fail tactically to protect the c2 pawn. After Kd8 white has nothing better to do than just castle and let black attack. After Kd8 0-0 (whites best move) Black can either go Nxc2, C6, or Qf5. All look promising. 

Avatar of logicsound

Ahh, I see it.   Still learning so I was stuck on not giving up my ability to castle and being scared of his queen, I also could not see that many moves ahead.    Thanks for explaining it.

Avatar of kindaspongey

"... {5...Na5!] has always been the standard move and is one you can expect to rely on for the rest of your career. … I've dedicated Sections 3A and 3B to [5...Nd4]. But please remember that this is a line that you may eventually have to replace. The move you definitely should avoid is 5...Nxd5?!, when 6 Nxf7!? Kxf7 7 Qf3+ Ke6 8 Nc3 illustrates Black's problems (and 6 d4! may be even stronger). ..." - Sverre Johnsen (2018)

"... [After 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 Bc4, I recommend] 3...Bc5 … as the wisest choice for those starting out with 1 e4 e5 openings. …" - GM John Emms (2018)

"... If Black plays the very natural move 3...Nf6, White can reply 4 Ng5. … I've seen this position appear hundreds of times in junior games, and Black often goes astray immediately. … [4...d5! is] a way for Black to defend against White's threat, … However, even after this move Black has to be very careful. …" - GM John Emms (2018)

Avatar of Prometheus_Fuschs
It’s doubtful if it’s a good opening.
Avatar of corum

One of the best books I have read about chess was Chess for Zebras.

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In this book, Rowson explained some reasons why people improve as chess players when they are young but often finally reach a plateau beyond which they cannot progress no matter how much they play. If I understand one of his arguments correctly it was that adults learn ‘rules’ such as ‘doubled pawns are bad’ or 'you need to castle' and rely on them too much. Now, often it is important to castle but it turns out that in lots of situations it's ok not to castle. In fact, it can even be good not to castle. Whereas a weak player (and I count myself as one of those) might not consider a line because they have convinced themselves that not castling is bad, a GM player would calculate the position and come to a view - based on pragmatic empiricism - about whether it is important to castle in each particular case.

In short players become lazy and rely too heavily on rules such as doubled pawns are bad, open files are good, knights on the rim are dim, and consequently they fail to calculate sufficiently (and fail to develop the skills do even do this).

 

I think this post is a brilliant example of this and there is a lesson to learn for many of us.

Avatar of hermanstinkt
logicsound schreef:
 
Just started playing again after a long break,  this game really confused me.  I was on the defense from the beginning and can't really pinpoint where I went wrong in the opening moves 1-7.  After move 7 I basically lost focus and made terrible moves but I really want to understand what I need to do to avoid getting in this spot again.
 
I ran it through the analyzer and it said my first 6 moves were fine but then it tells me 7. Nd8 was bad ( I played this to add protection to the F7 square)  and I should have played 7. ND4 but that allows him to play Qxf7+ which gives me one move Kd8 and now I can't castle and I am in a very bad spot.
 
I am confused because the analyzer tells me my moves are fine but I don't really feel fine with his Queen on F7 and my King unable to castle and running... 
 
Hoping someone can shed some light on how I could have played this opening better or avoided getting into this mess.
 
Thanks!
 
 
 
 

 

You were completely fine and played the opening quite decent for your rating until 10... Qg6, which loses the bishop. 10... Qe7 would have protected the bishop and kept you in the game.

Another tip: if you find the knight attack (1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Nf6 4. Ng5...) annoying to play against then instead of 3... Nf6 go 3... Bc5. If the knight then jumps to g5 the queen can just capture it.

Avatar of kindaspongey

http://dev.jeremysilman.com/shop/pc/Chess-For-Zebras-p3867.htm

https://www.chess.com/blog/soler97/quotchess-for-zebrasquot-a-review

Avatar of logicsound

Thanks everyone!!!  I am reviewing all the feedback and for now, going to try playing the Bc5 line instead of Nf6.