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Just got completely blown off the board by someone 400 points higher than me

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royalbishop
shepi13 wrote:

Frequently if black castles e5 is correct, while if white can castle quickly d5 will kill an uncastled black.

Here is a game with e5, it is viable but I believe it should be delayed as shown:

 





I was going to mention the exaple you shown. But if he misses one move or gets the move order wrong one disaster after another will happen.

Patience is the mental reason he lost. The mental reason. That will improve with time. Then he would be ready for that example.

Plus it should not work on a 1900 ranked player.

shepi13
Elubas wrote:

Shepi, do they really have actual theory on 2...Nf6 3 cxd5 Nxd5?

Yes, the theory is simply that you should play 4. Nf3 instead of e4?! (which allows Nf6 Nc3 e5 with some counterplay).

There is also some small theory on how to meet 4...Bf5 (preventing e4).

shepi13
Yereslov wrote:

4. e5 is without a doubt much better. It is the main reason why hardly anyone plays the Marshall Defense.

White could have also played 6. d5 Nb4 7. a6 Na6 8. e5!

Honestly, the 1900+ played terribly. You should have squashed him, but you let fear get in the way.

No, 4. Nf3 is correct.

Like I said, the d5 break is usually strong, even after black plays e6, when the e file is busted open with black's king in the center.

shepi13
royalbishop wrote:
shepi13 wrote:

Frequently if black castles e5 is correct, while if white can castle quickly d5 will kill an uncastled black.

Here is a game with e5, it is viable but I believe it should be delayed as shown:

 





I was going to mention the exaple you shown. But if he misses one move or gets the move order wrong one disaster after another will happen.

Patience is the mental reason he lost. The mental reason. That will improve with time. Then he would be ready for that example.

Plus it should not work on a 1900 ranked player.

That game was against a 2000+ player in online chess here, with 3 days/move. Of course, black shouldn't castle into the sacrifice, but must play some prepatory moves before castling. He will fall further behind in development and some nice sacrifices will come hopefully, white has a huge advantage if not winning.

royalbishop
waffllemaster wrote:

I'm amazed people can look at this game and what stands out to them is tactical weakness.

Not implying anyone is wrong or right... just that Chess is an amazing game

How is it based on tactical? When it is clearly positional and requires patience.

Have to set up things and he had time to do it. His idea to get something started on the King side was correct put he needed to assemble his forces and coordinate them better. Black seemed not to think about o-o-o so he had the green light for a king side attack.

Board vision, not having it hurts players if they do not have it or it is not strong. He gave the Knight and Queen targets to attack which gave them tempo and better square gaining mobility and position. With the Queen Bishop blocked in the Queen Rook is also blocked in. All his pieces had freedom to move so even when he did not put them in the best squares he still had options.

My suggestion is that he study King side attacks. This will prevent him from any type of panic or losing patience. Their are many schools on thought how to attack the king side. Sure over time he will find a couple that is comfortable with at this level and then able to move on the more advanced attacks.

Yereslov
shepi13 wrote:
Yereslov wrote:

4. e5 is without a doubt much better. It is the main reason why hardly anyone plays the Marshall Defense.

White could have also played 6. d5 Nb4 7. a6 Na6 8. e5!

Honestly, the 1900+ played terribly. You should have squashed him, but you let fear get in the way.

No, 4. Nf3 is correct.

Like I said, the d5 break is usually strong, even after black plays e6, when the e file is busted open with black's king in the center.

That must be why most games feature the e5 pawn push, whereas your line is much rarer, and has a lower winning percentage.

waffllemaster
royalbishop wrote:
waffllemaster wrote:

I'm amazed people can look at this game and what stands out to them is tactical weakness.

Not implying anyone is wrong or right... just that Chess is an amazing game

How is it based on tactical? When it is clearly positional and requires patience.

Have to set up things and he had time to do it. His idea to get something started on the King side was correct put he needed to assemble his forces and coordinate them better. Black seemed not to think about o-o-o so he had the green light for a king side attack.

Board vision, not having it hurts players if they do not have it or it is not strong. He gave the Knight and Queen targets to attack which gave them tempo and better square gaining mobility and position. With the Queen Bishop blocked in the Queen Rook is also blocked in. All his pieces had freedom to move so even when he did not put them in the best squares he still had options.

My suggestion is that he study King side attacks. This will prevent him from any type of panic or losing patience. Their are many schools on thought how to attack the king side. Sure over time he will find a couple that is comfortable with at this level and then able to move on the more advanced attacks.

@ highlighted parts:

Yereslov
waffllemaster wrote:
royalbishop wrote:
waffllemaster wrote:

I'm amazed people can look at this game and what stands out to them is tactical weakness.

Not implying anyone is wrong or right... just that Chess is an amazing game

How is it based on tactical? When it is clearly positional and requires patience.

Have to set up things and he had time to do it. His idea to get something started on the King side was correct put he needed to assemble his forces and coordinate them better. Black seemed not to think about o-o-o so he had the green light for a king side attack.

Board vision, not having it hurts players if they do not have it or it is not strong. He gave the Knight and Queen targets to attack which gave them tempo and better square gaining mobility and position. With the Queen Bishop blocked in the Queen Rook is also blocked in. All his pieces had freedom to move so even when he did not put them in the best squares he still had options.

My suggestion is that he study King side attacks. This will prevent him from any type of panic or losing patience. Their are many schools on thought how to attack the king side. Sure over time he will find a couple that is comfortable with at this level and then able to move on the more advanced attacks.

@ highlighted parts:

 

Nice ad.

shepi13
Yereslov wrote:
shepi13 wrote:
Yereslov wrote:

4. e5 is without a doubt much better. It is the main reason why hardly anyone plays the Marshall Defense.

White could have also played 6. d5 Nb4 7. a6 Na6 8. e5!

Honestly, the 1900+ played terribly. You should have squashed him, but you let fear get in the way.

No, 4. Nf3 is correct.

Like I said, the d5 break is usually strong, even after black plays e6, when the e file is busted open with black's king in the center.

That must be why most games feature the e5 pawn push, whereas your line is much rarer, and has a lower winning percentage.

Well, considering I didn't give a line, but gave an idea, I don't see how you can refute it.

In some positions, like the game I showed, e5 is correct.

In other positions, d5 is correct.

That is why I like delaying pushing one of my center pawns and giving up squares until I am sure of which one to push.

Does that make sense?

 

Oh wait, I forgot, your rybka can't deal with ideas, only with lines. Too bad.

royalbishop
shepi13 wrote:
royalbishop wrote:
shepi13 wrote:

Frequently if black castles e5 is correct, while if white can castle quickly d5 will kill an uncastled black.

Here is a game with e5, it is viable but I believe it should be delayed as shown:

 





I was going to mention the exaple you shown. But if he misses one move or gets the move order wrong one disaster after another will happen.

Patience is the mental reason he lost. The mental reason. That will improve with time. Then he would be ready for that example.

Plus it should not work on a 1900 ranked player.

That game was against a 2000+ player in online chess here, with 3 days/move. Of course, black shouldn't castle into the sacrifice, but must play some prepatory moves before castling. He will fall further behind in development and some nice sacrifices will come hopefully, white has a huge advantage if not winning.

We all have to agree this guy on black was not a good representive of a 1900 rated player. And no way should he fall for the attack you shown. I know exactly where to shoot it down. I have like 6 examples of it my book. Plus i have neutralized it in Vote Chess games. And to add i know a Vote Chess team that likes to use it. So i have seen it over 50 times.

waffllemaster
Yereslov wrote:
 

Nice ad.

fixed

blueemu
Yereslov wrote:

That must be why most games feature the e5 pawn push, whereas your line is much rarer, and has a lower winning percentage.

If, by "winning percentage" you mean: "in on-line games data-bases"... that doesn't always mean much.

The old book line in the Petroff: 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. Nxe5 d6 4. Nf3 Nxe4 5. d4 d5 6. Bd3 Nc6 7. O-O Be7 8. c4 Nb4 9. cxd5 Nxd3 10. Qxd3 Qxd5 11. Re1 Bf5 12. Nc3 Nxc3 13. Qxc3 c6

... is given in online games data-bases as better for Black (42.9% wins for Black compared to 35.7% for White and 21.4% draws)... but the fact is that 14. Bh6 wins out of hand for White.

The problem is that when a convincing refutation is found for a line, people simply stop playing it... so the "winning percentages" get frozen-in at that point, regardless of the newly-discovered refutation.

shepi13
royalbishop wrote:
shepi13 wrote:
royalbishop wrote:
shepi13 wrote:

Frequently if black castles e5 is correct, while if white can castle quickly d5 will kill an uncastled black.

Here is a game with e5, it is viable but I believe it should be delayed as shown:

 





I was going to mention the exaple you shown. But if he misses one move or gets the move order wrong one disaster after another will happen.

Patience is the mental reason he lost. The mental reason. That will improve with time. Then he would be ready for that example.

Plus it should not work on a 1900 ranked player.

That game was against a 2000+ player in online chess here, with 3 days/move. Of course, black shouldn't castle into the sacrifice, but must play some prepatory moves before castling. He will fall further behind in development and some nice sacrifices will come hopefully, white has a huge advantage if not winning.

We all have to agree this guy on black was not a good representive of a 1900 rated player. And no way should he fall for the attack you shown. I know exactly where to shoot it down. I have like 6 examples of it my book. Plus i have neutralized it in Vote Chess games. And to add i know a Vote Chess team that likes to use it. So i have seen it over 50 times.

Well, not castling in that position is the only option to shoot it down, but white still has a huge advantage (chess.com shows +1.29, and I don't disagree, even though the chess.com engine isn't trustworthy the position before black castles is at least +1 IMO.)

royalbishop
shepi13 wrote:
Yereslov wrote:
shepi13 wrote:
Yereslov wrote:

4. e5 is without a doubt much better. It is the main reason why hardly anyone plays the Marshall Defense.

White could have also played 6. d5 Nb4 7. a6 Na6 8. e5!

Honestly, the 1900+ played terribly. You should have squashed him, but you let fear get in the way.

No, 4. Nf3 is correct.

Like I said, the d5 break is usually strong, even after black plays e6, when the e file is busted open with black's king in the center.

That must be why most games feature the e5 pawn push, whereas your line is much rarer, and has a lower winning percentage.

Well, considering I didn't give a line, but gave an idea, I don't see how you can refute it.

In some positions, like the game I showed, e5 is correct.

In other positions, d5 is correct.

That is why I like delaying pushing one of my center pawns and giving up squares until I am sure of which one to push.

Does that make sense?

 

Oh wait, I forgot, your rybka can't deal with ideas, only with lines. Too bad.

Ok i can settle this.

At some time we come across the point of when to move a pawn to the 5th rank. We see several examples that work. This when we first see them and still developing as a player. During this time we move towards what is comfortable with us. No we may go the other way but end the end we most likely make moves we have had experience with in these situations.

This is what leads to different points of view here as 2 sides have won games with their moves/plans. But the key here is that both sides have a plan in mind.

Yereslov
blueemu wrote:
Yereslov wrote:

That must be why most games feature the e5 pawn push, whereas your line is much rarer, and has a lower winning percentage.

If, by "winning percentage" you mean: "in on-line games data-bases"... that doesn't always mean much.

The old book line in the Petroff: 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. Nxe5 d6 4. Nf3 Nxe4 5. d4 d5 6. Bd3 Nc6 7. O-O Be7 8. c4 Nb4 9. cxd5 Nxd3 10. Qxd3 Qxd5 11. Re1 Bf5 12. Nc3 Nxc3 13. Qxc3 c6

... is given in online games data-bases as better for Black (42.9% wins for Black compared to 35.7% for White and 21.4% draws)... but the fact is that 14. Bh6 wins out of hand for White.

The problem is that when a convincing refutation is found for a line, people simply stop playing it... so the "winning percentages" get frozen-in at that point, regardless of the newly-discovered refutation.

It matters not. To claim that the e4 pawn push should be delayed has no basis.

shepi13

Not e4, e5.

shepi13

And yes, e4 should be delayed and Nf3 should come first. This is well established theory, shown in many books and known by many grandmasters, regardless of winning percentage it is about counterplay.

royalbishop
shepi13 wrote:
royalbishop wrote:
shepi13 wrote:
royalbishop wrote:
shepi13 wrote:

Frequently if black castles e5 is correct, while if white can castle quickly d5 will kill an uncastled black.

Here is a game with e5, it is viable but I believe it should be delayed as shown:

 





I was going to mention the exaple you shown. But if he misses one move or gets the move order wrong one disaster after another will happen.

Patience is the mental reason he lost. The mental reason. That will improve with time. Then he would be ready for that example.

Plus it should not work on a 1900 ranked player.

That game was against a 2000+ player in online chess here, with 3 days/move. Of course, black shouldn't castle into the sacrifice, but must play some prepatory moves before castling. He will fall further behind in development and some nice sacrifices will come hopefully, white has a huge advantage if not winning.

We all have to agree this guy on black was not a good representive of a 1900 rated player. And no way should he fall for the attack you shown. I know exactly where to shoot it down. I have like 6 examples of it my book. Plus i have neutralized it in Vote Chess games. And to add i know a Vote Chess team that likes to use it. So i have seen it over 50 times.

Well, not castling in that position is the only option to shoot it down, but white still has a huge advantage (chess.com shows +1.29, and I don't disagree, even though the chess.com engine isn't trustworthy the position before black castles is at least +1 IMO.)

It is not the only way. I have the key in my book on that type of game.

But what you suggest might be the best response..... i started to say no but caught myself as i can not see the board with it on another page as i type this. But theory would say black the Black king is safe for now. Do you know why?

In any case white can still attack that king side and win material. It might be a pawn. And in many cases a pawn is more than enought to win a game. Which brings me to a quote. "Never lose a pawn and never lose a game".

royalbishop

Which database are you guys talking about. As they miss many winning lines of play in each of them. I seen it happen in Vote Chess so many times. They pull it out. If you do not understand the opening when using them then you can find yourself in a world of trouble down the line.

I know d4 opening theory like i know the back of my hand. I can write pages on a position in the opening. And still not a GM which means their is a lot more info out their to learn. And i did when i learned it is not all about the opening and the database. It is about the position and how to exploit opponent weakness.

So i figured a way to put this to a test. I studied how to use my pieces. I picked a couple of openings i had no clue about and won with them the first couple times. Like 3-4 consecutive games.

So it comes down to your plan and how you want to attack your opponent and if you need to take time out to play defense to make your plan work!

shepi13

If 0-0 e5 Nd7 Bxh7+ black should probably play Kh8, but it is hopeless. As I pointed out Kg6 doesn't get mated, but I had calculated Qc2+ f5 exf6+ Kxf6 Ne4+ Ke7 Nxc5, and black's position collapses, as he is down a pawn with major king problems. There is probably an even better line.