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Avatar of russ6200
I was wondering if someone who knows the Pirc vs Austrian well could comment on my last game. I played black and thought I was dead on, but just couldn’t seem to take the lead. I tried the c5 line attacking the white center. I thought at one point I could draw, but no luck. Thoughts?

Check out this #chess game: ronniewhiteknight vs russ6200 - https://www.chess.com/daily/game/534247903
Avatar of MarkusRoman

if you want to post your games click the diagram that looks like a chess board on the top bar right above the commenting box and use "load from PGN" then go to your game hit share and copy paste the PGN into it

Avatar of russ6200
Avatar of russ6200

That’s nifty, haven’t used that feature.

Avatar of russ6200

I know I blundered with the rook near the end, but was already behind in material before that move.

Avatar of MarkusRoman

now im not the biggest fan of the pirc defense but if you want advice on how to play it the best i can tell you is to focus on maintaining a firm grasp on the center for example right when you got out of book you played 14... Qb5 now im not sure what the top engine move would be but you should be focusing on breaking whites center pawns in this case the d5 pawn with 14... e6 15. Bxc5 Rd8 white might be up a pawn but white also has 2 hanging pawns and a no clear direction

Avatar of blueemu

Doesn't playing 0-0 before c5 have a better reputation? That would have avoided the entire line that starts with Bb5+.

Also, blocking that check with the f6-Knight (instead of with the Bishop) was worth considering. There's an analogous line in the Modern Benoni (Taimanov?) where Black answers Bb5+ with Nfd7, to take the sting out of e4-e5.

Avatar of magipi
russ6200 wrote:

I know I blundered with the rook near the end, but was already behind in material before that move.

Were you? I count equal material at that point. Sure, your position is pretty bad, but that does not mean that you should lose immediately without a fight.

Avatar of MarkusRoman
blueemu wrote:

Doesn't playing 0-0 before c5 have a better reputation? That would have avoided the entire line that starts with Bb5+.

Also, blocking that check with the f6-Knight (instead of with the Bishop) was worth considering. There's an analogous line in the Modern Benoni (Taimanov?) where Black answers Bb5+ with Nfd7, to take the sting out of e4-e5.

I agree castling early seems to be safer but I wouldn’t recommend blocking with the knight because it is an extreme reaction to the e4 pawn. the knight dosnt actually have a major threat and your just blocking your bishop from entering the game and pinning yourself.

Avatar of blueemu
Iemonking wrote:
blueemu wrote:

Doesn't playing 0-0 before c5 have a better reputation? That would have avoided the entire line that starts with Bb5+.

Also, blocking that check with the f6-Knight (instead of with the Bishop) was worth considering. There's an analogous line in the Modern Benoni (Taimanov?) where Black answers Bb5+ with Nfd7, to take the sting out of e4-e5.

I agree castling early seems to be safer but I wouldn’t recommend blocking with the knight because it is an extreme reaction to the e4 pawn. the knight dosnt actually have a major threat and your just blocking your bishop from entering the game and pinning yourself.

Blocking with the f6-Knight is effective precisely BECAUSE it is an extreme reaction.

White threatens e4-e5 attacking the f6-Knight, and then immediately e5-e6 because any piece that blocked on d7 (eg: the c8-Bishop) will be pinned and unable to capture on e6. Black cuts across this plan by blocking WITH the f6-Knight, so that e4-e5 will not gain a tempo.

Blocking in the c8-Bishop is trivial. First, it has no useful square anyway. Where would you put it? Second, the Knight that retreated isn't going to spend the rest of the game on d7. Third, White is now the one who must respond to threats (instead of Black)... with cxd4, or Qa5+. or a7-a6 all possible.

The main Black threat is probably a7-a6 (followed, if the White Bishop retreats, by b7-b5).

Avatar of MarkusRoman

I’m not copying the entire conversation this is to blueemu

The issue I saw was black doesn't have much after that if you go with a6 I take your knight and gobble up your pawns if you go for Qa5+ then I go Bd2 and black has no play. If after Bd2 you go dxc5 then I go e4-e5 and how both your bishops are useless, if you castle then Bxd7 Nxd7 pawns trade and I plop my knight in the center and force you queen to leave, if you go a6 now then I trade and I use your queen as a punching bag till All my pieces are sufficiently developed and In the end white has total center control and black’s development is very delayed so white is arguably much better

e4-e5 is just one of the downsides of this variation of the pirc defense ignoring whites center pawns and setting up quick development and castling comes at a cost. so attempting to prevent it and further delaying your development gives white the total center control and undermining the entire purpose of d6 in the first place.

Avatar of russ6200
magipi wrote:
russ6200 wrote:

I know I blundered with the rook near the end, but was already behind in material before that move.

Were you? I count equal material at that point. Sure, your position is pretty bad, but that does not mean that you should lose immediately without a fight.

i thought I was, perhaps you’re right. Maybe it was just a confidence thing at this point rather than material.

Avatar of russ6200
Iemonking wrote:
blueemu wrote:

Doesn't playing 0-0 before c5 have a better reputation? That would have avoided the entire line that starts with Bb5+.

Also, blocking that check with the f6-Knight (instead of with the Bishop) was worth considering. There's an analogous line in the Modern Benoni (Taimanov?) where Black answers Bb5+ with Nfd7, to take the sting out of e4-e5.

I agree castling early seems to be safer but I wouldn’t recommend blocking with the knight because it is an extreme reaction to the e4 pawn. the knight dosnt actually have a major threat and your just blocking your bishop from entering the game and pinning yourself.

If 6… Nbd7, I was concerned about

6. Bb5+ Nbd7 
7. e5 Ng4
8. e6 fxe6
9. Ng5

It just looked really ugly with the potential fork and the hanging knight.

Avatar of russ6200
Iemonking wrote:

now im not the biggest fan of the pirc defense but if you want advice on how to play it the best i can tell you is to focus on maintaining a firm grasp on the center for example right when you got out of book you played 14... Qb5 now im not sure what the top engine move would be but you should be focusing on breaking whites center pawns in this case the d5 pawn with 14... e6 15. Bxc5 Rd8 white might be up a pawn but white also has 2 hanging pawns and a no clear direction

That sounds right, I had confidence in the Q move defending the c pawn while attacking b2, but didn’t realize that change in strategy really slowed the central attack.

The castle is as far as my book knowledge had taken me and had only briefly looked beyond. The game review indicated using the queen, but differently with 14… Rd8 continuing the central attack. Oh well, learned something new.

Avatar of russ6200

Thank you all for the input, very valuable.