What to do?????

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Avatar of thejackbauer

In this game I played way too aggressively. I ended up losing a rook, but won the game at the end. What do you guys feel about the position?

Anyways please check out from move 14 for white. The four options were what I thought the four most likely replies, but 1) I'm not sure if I continued it out that well and 2) if those four were the best.

Edit: check out 6th post for what I consider to be the final position (where black ends with a good advantage). I may be wrong and white or black may have much stronger attacks.

Avatar of orangehonda

Nothing in depth here, just looking at the position for move 14.

Why not 14.Nxc8+ with Bxb7 forking the rooks?  Or you could simplify first -- Qxa1 Bxa1 Nxc8+ Rxc8 exd7 Kxd7 Bxb7 Nc6  Ok, that's a lot, here's a diagram.

 

After 0-0 Qxd1 Rxd1 why do you have the king capturing the pawn?  dxe6 seems to make sense to get rid of the backward pawn and clear d7 for the knight challenging e5 and preparing to pressure the knight on d6 with moves like Rd8 and Ne5 or something similar.

In the 14.exf7 line 16.Bd2 drops the knight as you showed -- why not just 16.Kf1

 

Oh, and in the final position can't black fight a little longer?

Avatar of guguloiul

in the castle variation...perhaps you could've achieved more with 17.g4...threatening 18.g5#....but i'm too lazy to analyze all the posibilities from this.Still...a very nice game :)

Avatar of thejackbauer
orangehonda wrote:

Nothing in depth here, just looking at the position for move 14.

Why not 14.Nxc8+ with Bxb7 forking the rooks?

After 0-0 Qxd1 Rxd1 why do you have the king capturing the pawn?  dxe6 seems to make sense to get rid of the backward pawn and clear d7 for the knight challenging e5 and preparing to pressure the knight on d6 with moves like Rd8 and Ne5 or something similar.

In the 14.exf7 line 16.Bd2 drops the knight as you showed -- why not just 16.Kf1


For 14. exf7 wasn't best moves was just showing what would happen if the King were to try to escape.

I have no idea why I didn't reply with a pawn capture for the 0-0 variation. In that case I think white is probably much better, so 0-0 is probably bad.

Anyways was just wondering what would be the best moves from 14. I think the way it was played out looks like a decent result (Qxa1) but is that the best, and I'm sure black's continuation weren't.

For example, as you suggested 14. Nxc8+. But this variation seems to simply a lot and in the end results in white being down a whole piece.

 

gugol-thanks for your comment. But if black had played as orangehonda suggested, I think the 0-0 variation won't be so good.

Avatar of orangehonda
thejackbauer wrote:
orangehonda wrote:

Nothing in depth here, just looking at the position for move 14.

Why not 14.Nxc8+ with Bxb7 forking the rooks?

After 0-0 Qxd1 Rxd1 why do you have the king capturing the pawn?  dxe6 seems to make sense to get rid of the backward pawn and clear d7 for the knight challenging e5 and preparing to pressure the knight on d6 with moves like Rd8 and Ne5 or something similar.

In the 14.exf7 line 16.Bd2 drops the knight as you showed -- why not just 16.Kf1


For 14. exf7 wasn't best moves was just showing what would happen if the King were to try to escape.

I have no idea why I didn't reply with a pawn capture for the 0-0 variation. In that case I think white is probably much better, so 0-0 is probably bad.

Anyways was just wondering what would be the best moves from 14. I think the way it was played out looks like a decent result (Qxa1) but is that the best, and I'm sure black's continuation weren't.

For example, as you suggested 14. Nxc8+. But this variation seems to simply a lot and in the end results in white being down a whole piece.

 

gugol-thanks for your comment. But if black had played as orangehonda suggested, I think the 0-0 variation won't be so good.


I completely didn't notice white was down a rook at move 14... sorry Smile

I kept looking at my comments and added stuff... like diagrams... but didn't notice that heh... never mind on the Nxc8 thing Wink

Avatar of thejackbauer

Orangehonda- Thanks for your diagrams and comments. For the final position diagram, it indeed looks like black can put up a fight, but white is in the better position. And the Nxc8 actually was a quite strong idea, as it does help white out as I later comment on.

It seems, after more analyzation and looking at your comments, that 14. Qxa1 is the best continuation. With my variation, after looking at your continuation it seems like white is better but there still is a fight for black. But I'm not too sure if black really has to lead himself into that position. For example, maybe 15. 0-0 was not so strong because black can just allow the bishop to hang and then capture the problamatic pawn with 15... dxe6 (fixing the backward pawn) or 15...fxe6 opening the f-file for the rook. The bishop is lost but black is still up the exchange. But it seems like your Nxc8+ can actually be quite strong here. For example, 15. 0-0 dxe6 16. Nxc8+ Rxc8 17. Bxb2 Nc6 18. Bxa8 Rxa8 19. Rxa1 and it seems like material may be even (can't really picture the position).

I'm going to look into the position from 16. exf7 (after Bishop escapes to a square) further since it seems like this may actually be the best replies from both black and white. But just take a glance it looks like white is doing fine, and that pawn on f7 and white's positional advantage makes up for the rook. Can anyone back me or refute this statement?

Also is this really the position after white's and black's best moves. Did I miss an easy escape for black (and fantasizing too much counterplay for a loss rook). Or did I miss out on a strong attack for white?

Edit: 15...Bc3 looks very strong for black, is there anything white can do?

Thanks!

Edit: I think here is my final position evaluation.

Avatar of orangehonda

Looks like you're right, it's just not good for white after the 15...Bc3 move and 15.Kd2 leaves white the exchange and 2 pawns down (I was thinking 16. Rxa1 in the most recent diagram).  I don't see any kind of winning attack for white.