Which pawn should i take it with (or any improvements i can make to this opening)?

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misakamikoto1

I need some help analyzing this position from this game that I lost recently. If this position occurs, which pawn should i take the light-squared bishop on c6 with? The d pawn or b pawn? If there is any improvements that i can make the opening, please let me know. The link for my game is down below:

https://www.chess.com/game/live/28053035033

I accept any further comments about my performance in the game so far, since these days I have been aiming to get past 1200 rating in rapid. So far I am trying to improve more on my tactics and learn more about the opening and especially the endgame by analyzing the games I lost. 

 

BM9994

I am still only learning too but for what its worth; I would take with the b pawn.

My reason would be that the d pawn is more important as it is on a middle file.  

Interested to hear thoughts from better players.

misakamikoto1
ITRaslje wrote:

Hi,that is an Exchange variation of the Ruy Lopez,u are of course supposed to take with the d pawn because then Nxe5 is met by Qd4 winning a piece.

I see. And it is a mate threat right, if I am not wrong? But what if white doesn't play Nxe5 after takes?

misakamikoto1
ITRaslje wrote:
misakamikoto1 wrote:
ITRaslje wrote:

Hi,that is an Exchange variation of the Ruy Lopez,u are of course supposed to take with the d pawn because then Nxe5 is met by Qd4 winning a piece.

I see. And it is a mate threat right, if I am not wrong? But what if white doesn't play Nxe5 after takes?

u just develop normally with Bd6 and O-O

 

 

Thanks bro

tygxc

dxc6
opens diagonal for Bc8
opens file for Qd8

after bxc6 Nxe5 black is in trouble

blueemu
ITRaslje wrote:

Hi,that is an Exchange variation of the Ruy Lopez,u are of course supposed to take with the d pawn because then Nxe5 is met by Qd4 winning a piece.

It's a Spanish Four Knights Game (1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Bb5 Bc5) and after 5. Bxc6 dxc6 6. Nxe5 the most accurate reply is probably 6. ... Bxf2+

 

The line you gave doesn't win a piece because of 7. Nd3.

 

blueemu
ITRaslje wrote:

I know what I'm doing

 

7. Nd3

I also know what you're doing... you're blundering.

blueemu
ITRaslje wrote:
blueemu wrote:
ITRaslje wrote:

I know what I'm doing

 

7. Nd3

look at white pieces.how will u develop them? u cant move the d pawn cuz of the knight

 

You'll develop them with either Nxc5 or with Qe2 or 0-0.

White is a Pawn up and Black has very little to show for it.

You are 2600 in BLITZ, and the advice you offer is the sort of cheap trick that only works in Blitz.

ThrillerFan
misakamikoto1 wrote:

 

I need some help analyzing this position from this game that I lost recently. If this position occurs, which pawn should i take the light-squared bishop on c6 with? The d pawn or b pawn? If there is any improvements that i can make the opening, please let me know. The link for my game is down below:

https://www.chess.com/game/live/28053035033

I accept any further comments about my performance in the game so far, since these days I have been aiming to get past 1200 rating in rapid. So far I am trying to improve more on my tactics and learn more about the opening and especially the endgame by analyzing the games I lost. 

 

 

Your first mistake is move 4, allowing a favorable version of the Fork Trick.

 

I see that you intended to play the Berlin (3.Bb5 Nf6), which in these lines, you usually take with the d-pawn to open up the Bishops.

 

HOWEVER - 4.Nc3 is an option for White and you are now in the Spanish Four Knights, which usually arises from 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bb5 (Same position as your game).

 

Black has two equally viable options, and both require a lot of studying, because if you know them, Black has little to no problems, but if you do not, this is not the type of opening that is playable on principles alone.

 

Which of the two opens is better depends on your style of play.

 

For the more positional player who prefers king safety and a calmer game, 4...Bb4 is the answer.  Do make sure you pick up a book though.  Black cannot mimic past move 6 as 7...Bg4 without taking the knight on c3 is a mistake (5.O-O O-O 6.d3 d6 7.Bg5 Bg4?)

 

For the more adventurous player that is not afraid to sacrifice a pawn with massive complications and an attack with Black, Rubinstein's pawn sacrifice with 4...Nd4 is the way to go.  But you better know the theory or you will lose quick.

 

There is this weird idea of 4...Bd6 that has had some recent hype, but it usually will not make sense to the average amateur below the IM level.  I highly suggest one of the first two.

 

While 20+ years old, the four Knights theory has not changed much in the two main lines, and I suggest getting the old book from Everyman with the Blue Cover (Not sure who wrote it - Jan Pinski maybe?).  Most other Four Knights books are White-Biased and only give a repertoire for White.  This book is objective and also gives the Scotch Four Knights (4.d4) and Glek (4.g3), which you will need to know anyway as a 1...e5 player.

misakamikoto1
blueemu wrote:
ITRaslje wrote:

Hi,that is an Exchange variation of the Ruy Lopez,u are of course supposed to take with the d pawn because then Nxe5 is met by Qd4 winning a piece.

It's a Spanish Four Knights Game (1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Bb5 Bc5) and after 5. Bxc6 dxc6 6. Nxe5 the most accurate reply is probably 6. ... Bxf2+

 

The line you gave doesn't win a piece because of 7. Nd3. (*)

(*) Actually it does. Because 7.Nd3 BlackNxe4 8. WhiteNxe4 Qxe4+

 

 

ThrillerFan
misakamikoto1 wrote:
blueemu wrote:
ITRaslje wrote:

Hi,that is an Exchange variation of the Ruy Lopez,u are of course supposed to take with the d pawn because then Nxe5 is met by Qd4 winning a piece.

It's a Spanish Four Knights Game (1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Bb5 Bc5) and after 5. Bxc6 dxc6 6. Nxe5 the most accurate reply is probably 6. ... Bxf2+

 

The line you gave doesn't win a piece because of 7. Nd3. (*)

(*) Actually it does. Because 7.Nd3 BlackNxe4 8. WhiteNxe4 Qxe4+

 

 

 

White can play 8.Qe2! instead of 8.Nxe4?

And if 8...Bf5 or 8...f5, then 9.Nxc5 and 10.f3

 

Follow my advice in post 13 and invest the 20 bucks.

Immaculate_Slayer
misakamikoto1 escreveu:

 

I need some help analyzing this position from this game that I lost recently. If this position occurs, which pawn should i take the light-squared bishop on c6 with? The d pawn or b pawn? If there is any improvements that i can make the opening, please let me know. The link for my game is down below:

https://www.chess.com/game/live/28053035033

I accept any further comments about my performance in the game so far, since these days I have been aiming to get past 1200 rating in rapid. So far I am trying to improve more on my tactics and learn more about the opening and especially the endgame by analyzing the games I lost. 

 

I'd take it with the d pawn. It speeds up your development by opening the bishop's diagonal. However, I think both are ok

Immaculate_Slayer
misakamikoto1 escreveu:
ITRaslje wrote:

Hi,that is an Exchange variation of the Ruy Lopez,u are of course supposed to take with the d pawn because then Nxe5 is met by Qd4 winning a piece.

I see. And it is a mate threat right, if I am not wrong? But what if white doesn't play Nxe5 after takes?

Yeah, they should go back with the knight defending the f2 pawn

blueemu
pfren wrote:
ITRaslje wrote:

Hi,that is an Exchange variation of the Ruy Lopez,u are of course supposed to take with the d pawn because then Nxe5 is met by Qd4 winning a piece.

It is not a Ruy Exchange, but rather a 4 Knights Spanish, and Black is not winning a poiece with the line you mentioned- actually Qd4 is a bad move. Either 6...Bd4 or, even better, 6...Bxf2+ are fine.

But you are rght that dxc6 is the most reasonable recapture.

I was right for once! Yay!

drmrboss
misakamikoto1 wrote:

 

I need some help analyzing this position from this game that I lost recently. If this position occurs, which pawn should i take the light-squared bishop on c6 with? The d pawn or b pawn? If there is any improvements that i can make the opening, please let me know. The link for my game is down below:

https://www.chess.com/game/live/28053035033

I accept any further comments about my performance in the game so far, since these days I have been aiming to get past 1200 rating in rapid. So far I am trying to improve more on my tactics and learn more about the opening and especially the endgame by analyzing the games I lost. 

 

If you know how to install Stockfish or Leela, you can get free advice from 3600+ rated players.

Both Stockfish and Leela says, dxc6.

 

llama47

dxc is a common way to capture in the Ruy and Scotch... sometimes this confuses some new players who are taught to "capture towards the center" with their pawns.

The Qd4 tactic is a common one is various 1.e4 e5 openings.

In other words this stuff is worth remembering.

Pan_troglodites

In my humble opinion, you should not move  rook to e1.