"I will admit, your suggested variations suck."
It's not mine, it's Stockfish evaluation usually after depth 25.
Why is Stockfish obsessed with the h7 pawn? Nf3-Ng5-Nxh7
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Jul 10, 2020
0
#44
Laskersnephew wrote:
17.Rxe7 Nxe7 18.Qxe7 looks pretty winning for White. Try to look at the board while you're arguing about variations
What moves are you using for 15 and 16?
Jul 10, 2020
0
#45
blueemu wrote:
blueemu wrote:
GambitShift wrote:
"I prefer 1. Re3 followed by 2. Qe2 and 3. Rae1."
Why not Qe2 first? That is what I was going to do. The Bb2 was a mouseslip. So, I played Qe2 next.
15. Qe2 Nc6 and what's your threat?
But if you triple (instead of double) on the e-file... playing first Re3, then Qe2, then Rae1... then even after Black's Nc6 you are still threatening Rxe7+
Tripling on the file is extremely strong positionally, so it's not surprising that there is some tactical justification.
Recall Bobby Fischer's dictum: "Tactics flow from a superior position".
Ok, so, don't triple the major pieces?
Jul 10, 2020
0
#46
GambitShift wrote:
blueemu wrote:
blueemu wrote:
GambitShift wrote:
"I prefer 1. Re3 followed by 2. Qe2 and 3. Rae1."
Why not Qe2 first? That is what I was going to do. The Bb2 was a mouseslip. So, I played Qe2 next.
15. Qe2 Nc6 and what's your threat?
But if you triple (instead of double) on the e-file... playing first Re3, then Qe2, then Rae1... then even after Black's Nc6 you are still threatening Rxe7+
Tripling on the file is extremely strong positionally, so it's not surprising that there is some tactical justification.
Recall Bobby Fischer's dictum: "Tactics flow from a superior position".
Ok, so, don't triple the major pieces?
Wait, wait... do you think that White would still reply to ... Nd4 (attacking White's Queen) with Rae1 "tripling on the e-file", thus losing his Queen?
Naturally, you triple if Black DEFENDS the e7-Knight. If he just abandons it, then you take it.
GambitShift wrote:
Laskersnephew wrote:
17.Rxe7 Nxe7 18.Qxe7 looks pretty winning for White. Try to look at the board while you're arguing about variations
What moves are you using for 15 and 16?
I am using the position and variation that you posted yourself in #37. 15.Re3 Nbc6 16.Qe2 O-O-O. you gave a line you claimed led to nothing for white, but you overlooked a fairly obvious winning line
Jul 10, 2020
0
#48
"Wait, wait... do you think that White would still reply to ... Nd4 (attacking White's Queen) with Rae1 "tripling on the e-file", thus losing his Queen?"
I see no queen threat. What piece would take the queen? Looks like a trade.
Jul 10, 2020
0
#49
Laskersnephew wrote:
GambitShift wrote:
Laskersnephew wrote:
17.Rxe7 Nxe7 18.Qxe7 looks pretty winning for White. Try to look at the board while you're arguing about variations
What moves are you using for 15 and 16?
I am using the position and variation that you posted yourself in #37. 15.Re3 Nbc6 16.Qe2 O-O-O. you gave a line you claimed led to nothing for white, but you overlooked a fairly obvious winning line
I was under the impression that tripling the major pieces in the center was something I should look into. Since no one presented an example, I went ahead and made one. If you don't like it, then present another. However, it seems that tripling the major pieces is NOT the way to go. I am now looking at the idea of ONLY using 1 rook and queen on the e file.
Jul 10, 2020
0
#50
GambitShift wrote:
"Wait, wait... do you think that White would still reply to ... Nd4 (attacking White's Queen) with Rae1 "tripling on the e-file", thus losing his Queen?"
I see no queen threat. What piece would take the queen? Looks like a trade.
Read my comment again.
You objected that I'm apparently changing my mind, since I didn't follow through with the :triple on the file" idea. I answered that Black has left his e7-Knight en prise by castling, so of course just capturing it takes priority over tripling on the e-file.
As to the diagram you just posted... sure, if Black wants to swap Queens when he is three points down, I will happily trade Queens.
An end-game with Bishop + Knight + two Pawns vs a Rook is a no-brainer.
Jul 10, 2020
0
#51
GambitShift wrote:
I was under the impression that tripling the major pieces in the center was something I should look into. Since no one presented an example...
Assume for a moment that Black is NOT suicidal, and that he guards the e7 Knight instead of abandoning it to capture. THEN it makes sense to triple on the file.
Jul 10, 2020
0
#52
If you only use one rook and black doesn't castle queenside, then I could see Ng5 being played, but I still wouldn't go for the h7 pawn. It could go to e6 after. Something like this.
Jul 10, 2020
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#53
As I mentioned, the initial position you gave us is already completely won for White, so there must be a dozen different ways to win. Why put so much focus on finding a thirteenth way?
". Since no one presented an example, I went ahead and made one."
If you make an example that overlooks the best moves for each side, you're not really contributing to the dialog.
Jul 10, 2020
0
#55
blueemu wrote:
GambitShift wrote:
I was under the impression that tripling the major pieces in the center was something I should look into. Since no one presented an example...
Assume for a moment that Black is NOT suicidal, and that he guards the e7 Knight instead of abandoning it to capture. THEN it makes sense to triple on the file.
Then it ends like this. Very hard to see I think, but I can understand it is a stronger position.
Jul 10, 2020
0
#57
blueemu wrote:
As I mentioned, the initial position you gave us is already completely won for White, so there must be a dozen different ways to win. Why put so much focus on finding a thirteenth way?
I was initially asking about the h7 pawn, not trying to turn this into a puzzle to be solved. I was curious about the computer side of it why Stockfish was multiple times gravitating to the h7 pawn.
You brought up tripling the major pieces, there was confusion, then there was clarification. Others have mentioned e6 (something about getting a rook off the f file, still don't know why that is important), so now I see how Ne6 can make sense. It would have been easier if someone just plunked down the moves on the board to make it visually easier to understand. Just saying e6 or tripling pieces doesn't communicate the position to the reader easily. Now that we have clarified the situation I can better see how attacking in the center is preferable to a queenside attack as I tried in the game.
"I was under the impression that tripling the major pieces in the center was something I should look into."
You seem to be under the impression that when someone suggests tripling the major pieces, he is swearing an eternal oath to triple the pieces no matter what moves Black plays. That's n ot how chess is actually played.
Jul 10, 2020
0
#59
blueemu wrote:
One more move: 20. Rxe7.
Yea, well, I am not that bad. I can see that far ahead.
Jul 10, 2020
0
#60
Laskersnephew wrote:
"I was under the impression that tripling the major pieces in the center was something I should look into."
You seem to be under the impression that when someone suggests tripling the major pieces, he is swearing an eternal oath to triple the pieces no matter what moves Black plays. That's n ot how chess is actually played.
They were making a distinction between tripling and not doubling. Without any visual aid, I didn't know what they were talking about.
17.Rxe7 Nxe7 18.Qxe7 looks pretty winning for White. Try to look at the board while you're arguing about variations
Exactly. His variations suck. There's so much pressure on the knight on e7 after stacking pieces on the e-file.