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Why not c5 here? Why Qd2?

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YouStoleMyButterfingers

I was black in this game, and I played c5 to plug up the queenside so I could launch a kingside attack (Nd7, f5, etc...).

 

Stockfish is showing holding off on c5 and for white to play Qd2. I also don't understand why Qd2 is good.

 

 

Chess_Player_lol
YouStoleMyButterfingers wrote:
Chess_Player_lol wrote:

stockfish is telling me nd7 instead of c5

also do you mean qd7?

 

I played c5, so I am asking why not c5. The reference to Qd2 is for white as stated in the OP.

i deleted it after I reread lol

Chess_Player_lol

c5 in the game you played has no pint because there isn't really a pawn break threat,

c5 after qd2 is good because it stops/delays the pawn break

YouStoleMyButterfingers

So, why keep it on c7? Why not prepare for it by playing c5?

DasBurner

just looking at the best engine line I think it wants to play nd7 and then nc5. playing c5 takes away that square for the knight. but then again, who knows what the engine wants? c5 kept your advantage which is good enough imo

Chess_Player_lol
YouStoleMyButterfingers wrote:

So, why keep it on c7? Why not prepare for it by playing c5?

because pawns can't g backwards and there is o need to waste a turn playing c5, nd7 prepares the kings side attack you talked about

YouStoleMyButterfingers
Chess_Player_lol wrote:
YouStoleMyButterfingers wrote:

So, why keep it on c7? Why not prepare for it by playing c5?

because pawns can't g backwards and there is o need to waste a turn playing c5, nd7 prepares the kings side attack you talked about

 

Ok, thanks. I'll have to get used to leaving the f and c pawns alone when other moves are more "fruitful".

Chess_Player_lol
YouStoleMyButterfingers wrote:
Chess_Player_lol wrote:
YouStoleMyButterfingers wrote:

So, why keep it on c7? Why not prepare for it by playing c5?

because pawns can't g backwards and there is o need to waste a turn playing c5, nd7 prepares the kings side attack you talked about

 

Ok, thanks. I'll have to get used to leaving the f and c pawns alone when other moves are more "fruitful".

In the game being able to play f5, i think is a good move but you have to realize that pawn pushes create weaknesses when you played c5 in the game you gave white an outpost square on b5

Chess_Player_lol

also im 1400 so don't take all of my words as perfect gm level moves

tygxc

A reason not to play ...c5 is that c5 is an excellent square for your knight. If you play Nf6-d7-c5, then you attack both d3 and b3. You can further attack pawn b3 with your rooks and/or queen. You have the open b-file. Your opponent has a weak backward pawn b3 on it.
A reason why Qd2 is good for white is that his dark square bishop is gone and your dark square bishop too. Moreover the white pawns are on light squares, so Be2 is a bad bishop. Thus white should play his queen to a dark square hence d2. On d2 the queen attacks pawn a5 and thus prevent you from seizing the b-file with Rb8. Also with Qd2 white connects his rooks, so they can defend the backward weak pawn b3 with say Rab1, Rb2 and Rfb1 

rishichess2000

adding to tygxc ur b5 square becomes weak so white knight can jump from e1 c2 a3 b5 also white gets f4 break after ne1

 

tygxc

#11
That is right: Nf3-e1-c2-a3-b5 plugs the weakness of pawn b3 and closes the open b-file. So ...c5 is bad as without it you can kick Nb5 with ...c6.
The break Ne1, f4 seems less fearsome. On fxe5 dxe5. On f5 Bd7. What is the big deal?

SmyslovsProtege
YouStoleMyButterfingers wrote:

I was black in this game, and I played c5 to plug up the queenside so I could launch a kingside attack (Nd7, f5, etc...).

 

Stockfish is showing holding off on c5 and for white to play Qd2. I also don't understand why Qd2 is good.

 

 

I must say that in these types of positions you have to look at the weaknesses in the position. We must also understand that c5 is not a threat from white because you have that square protected and you would win a pawn.

 

In this position white has a serious weakness, that being the b3 pawn. As a result, black should try to target that weakness. Doubling up on the B file with the rooks is a good idea. Moving the knight to c5 as it also targets white's weakness. 

 

Although I have not looked at the engine, people are indicating that the best plan is to move the knight immediately to the post. I have to disagree as it may be in white's interest to play the pawn sac b4 in order to get a passed pawn. After all that pawn is a goner anyway. As a result, I see the move rb8 as the best move.

 

To sum it up, in my opinion, black's plan should be to penetrate the white camp on the queenside. This is by targeting the weak b3 pawn. Anyways I hope I helped.

 

edit* (because I had this unfinished sentence) Once you get the b pawn your preferably with the rook perhaps an Alekhine's  gun (2 rooks and a queen as a battery), the penetration into the white camp looks promising.