I looked at it and thought castling would be fine but as you said after Rc7, it's best the King step up and defend that square, also helps the king get to the center faster as the endgame is rapidly approaching.
Would You Castle or Play Kd7 Here?
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Aug 10, 2022
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#43
In the given position I would have played Kd7 without giving it any thought. I'm not recommending my approach to move selection, I'm just commenting on the given position 
For my part, I would see Kd7 as an opportunity to connect and support the Rooks to challenge the c-file. I realize that this is obvious, but that is my point. Kd7 just looks like an obvious move here. Of course, I've been playing unrated training games with my sub 1000 son-in-law who has caught me off guard and embarrassed me lately for playing too quickly.
Aug 10, 2022
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#44
Gump_forest wrote:
B1ZMARK wrote:
Gump_forest wrote:
B1ZMARK wrote:
Gump_forest wrote:
B1ZMARK wrote:
Gump_forest wrote:
B1ZMARK wrote:
Batman2508 wrote:
B1ZMARK wrote:
@gump the problem with white doubling on the c file is that black can just play Nc6
yeah I mean but b7 is weak its much more unpleasnt than it has to be just kd7 and rac8 its curtains.
I wouldn't say it is unpleasant if white can't even win material. Maybe I just think differently, since I'm used to playing with space disadvantages. But there's nothing white can do. Black plays Na6, brings his king back to d7 (lol) and plays Rc8.
Sure, it's a lot of extra hassle, but white doesn't win material, and its just a few automatic moves anyways.
u love to make ur life difficult ..dont u ( says the guy who plays the dutch ;D)
you play the dutch i play the kings indian
try dutch ..u will get bad positions out of no where... i mean its a good weapon with ur alekhine s defense
dutch defense is my secondary weapon against d4. I'm more of a leningrad flak gun kinda guy
why people dont appreciate classical dutch much ? i mean is it because of alot of theory or something ? also people s go to choice is stonewall since its easy to play by hand
I think everyone plays the classical nowadays. Can't get enough chad leningrad people
but simon reccomends a mixture of classical and leningrad against the london
look i dont actually study the dutch I just play the leningrad setup and then win
Kd7 because 0-0 rc7
Aug 10, 2022
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#46
BrianLReid wrote:
In the given position I would have played Kd7 without giving it any thought. I'm not recommending my approach to move selection, I'm just commenting on the given position
For my part, I would see Kd7 as an opportunity to connect and support the Rooks to challenge the c-file. I realize that this is obvious, but that is my point. Kd7 just looks like an obvious move here. Of course, I've been playing unrated training games with my sub 1000 son-in-law who has caught me off guard and embarrassed me lately for playing too quickly.
Well this sounds more along the lines of pattern recognition, you recognized certain features of the position and instantly knew that Kd7 was best here, or well better then Castling. Honestly, as you see above I had to think about it but then again I'm a grand-patzer so ....lol
I just don't see how white checkmates black in this position. There is one open file, white currently has control over it, black needs to make sure that the file is not useful for white. So, ...Kd7, with the plan of ...Rhc8. Even if white wants to try Nd2-b3-c5, I just play ...b6 at some point. The only other concern is white trying to get play on the kingside/f-file, but I have a knight guarding f5, and I can play ...g6 and not care.
Castling is playable in this position... but why play the inferior move when the best move is so easy to evaluate?
Now, that said, if white has a LSB instead of a knight, then yeah, I probably think more about castling. It's much easier for me to see how my king can get harassed.
KeSetoKaiba wrote:
This position was in a recent chess.com game of mine. I was Black and won the game without much trouble due to the material. However, my chess.com friend @Gump_forest (not my opponent this game) was adamant on a particular move we disagreed in severity on. In the actual game, I castled.
A year ago I would have played ...Kd7 in a heartbeat and barely looked at castling. I'd consider it, but in the endgame I would have wanted the King in the center of the board anyway. Furthermore, ...Kd7 takes away opponent counterplay of Rc7 ideas.
In this game, I played my instinct move of castling. My logic this time was that ...O-O prioritizes King safety and I'm up by plenty of material anyway. White won't be able to win any pawns on the 7th rank anyway, but even if they do, what difference is 2 point lead or 3 point lead in material? The difference is negligible as Black still has the material lead and enough to easily convert into a win. I also know from pattern recognition (and Kmoch's book Pawn Power in Chess) that the open c-file isn't giving White enough to infiltrate and remain there (Kmoch has a small section on when an open file with Rook on the 7th rank is dangerous enough to worry about or not).
Although I agree that ...Kd7 is slightly better, I feel like considering alternatives like ...O-O more seriously (even if objectively a bit worse here) is part of a learning curve I must endure so that I may play the best moves in the future AND know from experience why alternatives aren't as good.
TL;DR version in bold below:
@Gump_forest and I both agree that ...Kd7 is slightly preferred, but what we currently debate is how "bad" castling is or not. They claim that castling is "a careless move" and that Carlsen would consider it a "Mistake" or "Blunder" if it was played in a game of his. However, my opinion is that both ...Kd7 and ...O-O were fine moves with ...Kd7 being only slightly preferred. For me, it is playstyle and preference and Black is winning in either way - it is too one-sided enough to matter debating a few centipawns. Is castling a flat out "Mistake" here, or am I overestimating a "simple" castling?
For reference, quick engine analysis claims ...Kd7 is about -5.39 and ...O-O is about -4.80
With the queens off the board, I feel more assured of playing moves like ...Kd7.
Aug 10, 2022
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#50
I would also play Kd7.. if not for anything else then because of Rc7
Aug 10, 2022
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#51
KeSetoKaiba wrote:
For reference, quick engine analysis claims ...Kd7 is about -5.39 and ...O-O is about -4.80
lol, you're a piece up, so of course it doesn't matter.
You're just lucky that Rb8 and Nc6 defend. In a "real" game giving up the c file could easily lose the game right away.
In fact remove the b4 knight and now ask the same question... and now the answer is Kd7 is equal while 0-0 is a game losing blunder.
First moves i saw were Nf5 and Nc6 def doesn't look like i want to castle. I kind of want to play NC6 NF5 and put the king on e7 even. for sure castling looks wrong to me but if i actually dig in i cant see it really making any difference. In fact I think you could play even play Kf8 allow Rc7 and your still good since you have Na6 and Rb8 on the table to deflect it. Once your up a piece it takes major mess ups to give it back.
Aug 10, 2022
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#53
KeSetoKaiba wrote:
@Gump_forest and I both agree that ...Kd7 is slightly preferred, but what we currently debate is how "bad" castling is or not. They claim that castling is "a careless move" and that Carlsen would consider it a "Mistake" or "Blunder"
That's not really the conversation you should be having. It's about whether giving up the c file matters. When you're up a knight (and when you can close it with Nc6) it doesn't really matter.
But remove the b4 knight and 0-0 is a game losing mistake.
Aug 10, 2022
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#54
nMsALpg wrote:
KeSetoKaiba wrote:
@Gump_forest and I both agree that ...Kd7 is slightly preferred, but what we currently debate is how "bad" castling is or not. They claim that castling is "a careless move" and that Carlsen would consider it a "Mistake" or "Blunder"
That's not really the conversation you should be having. It's about whether giving up the c file matters. When you're up a knight (and when you can close it with Nc6) it doesn't really matter.
But remove the b4 knight and 0-0 is a game losing mistake.
Fair enough, but yes we were discussing this exact position with the b4 knight. Without it, then yes ...O-O is much worse.
Aug 10, 2022
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#55
KeSetoKaiba wrote:
nMsALpg wrote:
KeSetoKaiba wrote:
@Gump_forest and I both agree that ...Kd7 is slightly preferred, but what we currently debate is how "bad" castling is or not. They claim that castling is "a careless move" and that Carlsen would consider it a "Mistake" or "Blunder"
That's not really the conversation you should be having. It's about whether giving up the c file matters. When you're up a knight (and when you can close it with Nc6) it doesn't really matter.
But remove the b4 knight and 0-0 is a game losing mistake.
Fair enough, but yes we were discussing this exact position with the b4 knight. Without it, then yes ...O-O is much worse.
As long as you'd normally play Kd7 I guess it doesn't matter.
Aug 10, 2022
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#56
Castling looks better to me, white has Ng5 and you will have to defend f7. Ke7 will allow Rc7+. That knight has no better move though, opponent would do that eventually.
You have a good Nd3 and fork a pawn, you wouldn't want your knight to fall back to your defenses.
Aug 10, 2022
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#57
I like Kd7 because in that variation you will have active rooks and white will have passive rooks
but in on the 0-0 variation white will have good rooks and you will have passive rooks
Aug 10, 2022
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#59
gdmufz wrote:
Castling looks better to me, white has Ng5 and you will have to defend f7. Ke7 will allow Rc7+. That knight has no better move though, opponent would do that eventually.
You have a good Nd3 and fork a pawn, you wouldn't want your knight to fall back to your defenses.
White does have Ng5 but you have 2 very good approaches vs Ng5, play f6 and kick the pony back or just completely ignore the threats simply because it takes so many moves with the knight that you would be able to play moves that are more useful than white's moves
KD7