A Fast, Sweaty Game

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Irontiger

20.Re1 Nxe1 ?? 21.Kxf2 +-

But Black simply pockets the material by 20...Rxd8 (looks stroger than 20...Nxh1) 21.Rh2 (otherwise ...Nxh1 comes)  21...Bc3 and all collapses. White is not mated yet, but Black gets too much material back (and keeps an attack)

Yereslov

Acitivity always trumps material, though white had 20. Re1!, then what? 

Yereslov
Irontiger wrote:

20.Re1 Nxe1 ?? 21.Kxf2 +-

But Black simply pockets the material by 20...Rxd8 (looks stroger than 20...Nxh1) 21.Rh2 (otherwise ...Nxh1 comes)  21...Bc3 and all collapses. White is not mated yet, but Black gets too much material back (and keeps an attack)

You make it sound to simple. I very much doubt any 1400-2200+ rated player could pull of a win here.

Black only regains material if he/she plays like a machine.

Yereslov

No one has mentioned 20. Kh2!.

Theoretical draw.

Yereslov

I checked this with deep position analysis. Black has a small advantage, but not enough to win.

Yereslov

Still, this queen sacrifice is a nice psychological move in blitz.

Irontiger

Trolleslov has found us ! Run for your lives !

"Activity always trumps material"... lol. With that logic the Halloween gambit is winning.

Besides, if you could give an explantation behind move 23...Rc8 in your diagram I would be interested.

GargleBlaster

I declare this game the Batgirl Immortal.

batgirl

The game is slightly immoral.

Knightly_News

If I didn't know better I'd say your queen sacrifice was a blunder and you got lucky :-)  Fun how those sacs can work so well sometimes in speed chess.  And the opponent's thinking they've got you for sure (and you're probably thinking the same thing), and when you win with strategy like that, it's simultaenously exhilirating and infuriating, depending on which side you're on.

But when I sacrifice, hadn't thought it through and lose - I want to tell the other player "I'm really much better than that; this isn't my style - in a normal game I'd kick your butt", but of course, I don't say that. And worse, it might not even be correct.  Any of it.

Anway, she who blitz and walk away lives to blitz another day... gg :-)

Yereslov
Irontiger wrote:
Trolleslov has found us ! Run for your lives !

"Activity always trumps material"... lol. With that logic the Halloween gambit is winning.

Besides, if you could give an explantation behind move 23...Rc8 in your diagram I would be interested.

I think you took that quote to literally. There is simply not enough activity in the gambit to win.

In the variation I mentioned white can draw, but that's about it.

Yereslov
Irontiger wrote:
Trolleslov has found us ! Run for your lives !

"Activity always trumps material"... lol. With that logic the Halloween gambit is winning.

Besides, if you could give an explantation behind move 23...Rc8 in your diagram I would be interested.

It's not my line. I let the engine run for a few minutes and it figured out the draw.

No mortal would ever find 20. Kh2!.

Yereslov
mykingdomforanos wrote:

20.Kh2 is fairly obvious.

black has 17...Rxg2

Yes, we get it. You're the next Magnus Carlsen. *sarcasm*

20. Kh2 is not at all obvious, and I dare you to try and draw this against a machine.

Yereslov
mykingdomforanos wrote:

Kh2 would not be obvious to clowns at your level, agreed.

Or your level. No one here considered 20. Kh2.

Stop trying to act tough. You're only a 2100+ rated player, which isn't high enought to judge these types of complex positons. 

You do not seem to take into account the rest of the game. Yes, 20. Kh2! is good, but what then?

Play it out, clown.

batgirl

This was, afterall, just a 5 min. game.

Yereslov
mykingdomforanos wrote:
Yereslov wrote:
mykingdomforanos wrote:

Kh2 would not be obvious to clowns at your level, agreed.

Or your level. No one here considered 20. Kh2.

Stop trying to act tough. You're only a 2100+ rated player, which isn't high enought to judge these types of complex positons. 

You do not seem to take into account the rest of the game. Yes, 20. Kh2! is good, but what then?

Play it out, clown.

make me dickhead.

have you found a white move against 17...Rxg2 yet, or asked some machine to find one for you ?

Your move doesn't work apparently. Maybe you should try checkers instead.

Irontiger
Yereslov wrote:

Stop trying to act tough. You're only a 2100+ rated player, which isn't high enough to judge these types of complex positons. 

And you are ?...

Oh, sorry, I forgot ratings don't count.

Yereslov
Irontiger wrote:
Yereslov wrote:

Stop trying to act tough. You're only a 2100+ rated player, which isn't high enough to judge these types of complex positons. 

And you are ?...

Oh, sorry, I forgot ratings don't count.

Of course not. 20. Kh2 would not be something a human would play OTB.

I think in regard to tactics machines outmatch us.

Irontiger
Yereslov wrote:

I think in regard to tactics machines outmatch us.

Sure, but that position is not one where either side is going to have a huge material disadvantage or get mated any moment soon.

Example : after your diagram of post 26, I play 27...Ra2. The a pawn is going to fall, and although Black has only equal material, the endgame is obviously much better for Black - due to the strong bishop and the king's security, factors that the computer may be blind about.

I suspect also that your line is suboptimal, but I have neither time to counter-analyse neither engine to launch on my candidate moves.

LoekBergman

Irontiger: I guess you were right that the move sequence of the variant of Yereslov is suboptimal for black. If I am correct, then will black also win after Kh2.