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BMeck

Well Fritz 12 had black up about -.90, I would assume from the fact of whites king position with majority of his pieces on the queenside. I know I am not highly rated but i think black could get a nice attack on the kingside, but would have to disregard a queenside defense. But hey, isnt that what the KG is all about...tactical games

batgirl

Dashkee, so, you think Black is positionally better? or at least has compensation for the pawn?   I'm a bit like Morphy but without the talent. I love active pieces (and therefore gambits) and open fields where material isn't the most important consideration.  But sometimes it's hard to see where it's all leading.

batgirl

"Well Fritz 12 had black up about -.90"   Does this mean Fritz doesn't count material for much, as Black is down a pawn?

BMeck
batgirl wrote:

"Well Fritz 12 had black up about -.90"   Does this mean Fritz doesn't count material for much, as Black is down a pawn?

Both sides have 6, Black has four on the kingside and two on the queenside and white is vice versa

batgirl
BMeck wrote:
batgirl wrote:

"Well Fritz 12 had black up about -.90"   Does this mean Fritz doesn't count material for much, as Black is down a pawn?

Both sides have 6, Black has four on the kingside and two on the queenside and white is vice versa

Durn, you're right.  I was counting the two pawns on the f file as one.  No wonder I can't play chess.

BMeck

I do like black, but I do think that their attack should come quickly. Maybe even a nifty minor piece sac might work

dashkee94

What it is is that while black has many weaknesses, it's difficult for white to generate any activity off of them.  As Bronstein said, "It's only a weakness if it can be exploited."  And white has weaknesses that black can address, notably (in the final position) d3.  So, in that case, yes, I'll say that black is better positionally, but it's due to a better cooperation of pieces, so it's tactical in nature.  A sort of tactical positional superiority.  But by it's nature it's transitory, and so must be realized when possible.  Keep approaching these positions like a Traxler and you'll do fine.  Bishops are strong in these openings.  And all of these lines are time versus material, right?

batgirl

"however 18.Bxf4?! was interesting as well, but should offer [still] decent drawing [endgame] chances."

Yeah, for Black.

darkener
batgirl wrote:
darkener wrote:

I put your game into Houdini, here's the conclusion: 
...The game was absolutely equal where Black had won on time.

Thanks.  So Houdini is sorta satisfied with Black's play  (as well as White's) ?

Would you also say that 13...Bxd4 gives away any advantage Black may have had?

According to Houdini: Yes, to put your rook or queen in the center (-0.65) was the best idea. Even simply taking the pawn on e4 would have given you the edge you need for good pressure. I think for Blitz 13. Kh1 Bxd4 is not a mistake though (-0.45). But after 17. dxc6 bxc6 the chances are equal. 18. b4 (0.00) or a5 (-0.20 would be fatal to capture) are White's best moves.

Or_theBashaKiller

have you tried the Nimzovich Counter Gambit ?  it's a fun one to counter the king gambit,  not sure if it's solid as other defenses for black but it's a fun line

anyway , white d3 pawn is a weakness if game went on your plan should have been attacking it . 

batgirl
manfredmann wrote:

I question slightly 12...Qb6, although I might play it myself in blitz, hoping for some cheap shot on f2 if white messes up.


Thanks for taking time to look at this game.  It's hard to remember what I might have been thinking in a blitz game from 2 weeks ago, but knowing myself, I was probably looking more at the pin the Q move would create and hoping to potentially stumble over some way to take advantage of it - a lot of blitz is intuitve and some moves are, for me, made in anticipation of finding something later. The pressure on f2 was likely more or less a bonus incentive to make the move.  Strategy in blitz often devolves into incorporating complexity, making your opponent have to think (to use up time) or to giving your opponent a choice (which also erodes his time), not necessarity in order to win on time (but that works too), but really to position your opponent to have to make quick moves in critical positions later on.   I think most of my wins come from my opponents' gross errors than from any forceful play on my part.

Irontiger

At the end, and despite what the computers can say, I prefer the black pieces by far.

An obvious plan is to pile on the d3 pawn with the minor pieces (...Bh5-g6, ...Nc5) and it's not clear at all to me what the computer pulls out of his hat against that.

batgirl

Well, that's why I asked people and not some computer. Lines are fine, and possibly more conclusive, but I think in plans, not lines (except maybe short tactical ideas), so human insight is more valuable to me than computer insight.  I thought the end position was interesting and the game ended unnaturally due to timeout, leaving me unsatisfied.  Thanks for your input in this.

tecnoecuador
Irontiger wrote:

At the end, and despite what the computers can say, I prefer the black pieces by far.

An obvious plan is to pile on the d3 pawn with the minor pieces (...Bh5-g6, ...Nc5) and it's not clear at all to me what the computer pulls out of his hat against that.

but white has still better pawns after loosing? this pawn d3, 

tecnoecuador

( on 3. ..h6 I play at once and maybe to early 4.h4 )

Irontiger
roi_g11 wrote:
Irontiger wrote:

At the end, and despite what the computers can say, I prefer the black pieces by far.

An obvious plan is to pile on the d3 pawn with the minor pieces (...Bh5-g6, ...Nc5) and it's not clear at all to me what the computer pulls out of his hat against that.

I don't think d3 is weak at all...i like the plan of h3 (where is the bishop going -- only h5), then Nf5 (allowing the pin on g6) but then after d4 black has no coordination and it looks to me like white is going to win material (I havent calculated everything though).  black can't pile up on the pinned knight, and if he takes Bxf5 then after the queen recaptures both of black's knights are attacked...even if he finds a way to save them white has more time to improve his other pieces with Re1...at minimum he can with the h-pawn with Qg6+.

Black does not have any active plans, and no good squares for his pieces.

 



In your diagram, 19...Bg6 ?? is just a tactical blunder. 19...c5 is better.

I must admit White has some counterplay though, I thought he couldn't push the d pawn that easily.

Irontiger
roi_g11 wrote:
Irontiger wrote:

In your diagram, 19...Bg6 ?? is just a tactical blunder. 19...c5 is better.

I must admit White has some counterplay though, I thought he couldn't push the d pawn that easily.

I agree Bg6 is bad, but black doesn't really have an active plan and white has a long list of good moves

Black's plan : ...Bg6, then put the rooks on center files.

White's plan : develop the Bc1 "somehow". The problem is to find a satisfying 'somehow'. What is your list of good moves ?

Irontiger
roi_g11 wrote:
Irontiger wrote:
roi_g11 wrote:
Irontiger wrote:

In your diagram, 19...Bg6 ?? is just a tactical blunder. 19...c5 is better.

I must admit White has some counterplay though, I thought he couldn't push the d pawn that easily.

I agree Bg6 is bad, but black doesn't really have an active plan and white has a long list of good moves

Black's plan : ...Bg6, then put the rooks on center files.

White's plan : develop the Bc1 "somehow". The problem is to find a satisfying 'somehow'. What is your list of good moves ?

But getting the bishop to g6 isn't easy, and putting the bishop there takes away the last square for the e5 knight, which is going to get challenged soon.  

there are lots of tactics here so real calculation would be needed, but a general plan is to give up a pawn (or two?) to open up the position (which favors the bishops) to get the c1 bishop active...maybe after h3 bh5 nf5 c5...white could try b4-b5 (trading pawns on b4 is OK and I don't think the queen can take on b4)...R on a to b or d file...

the knight on f5 could be trapped by Qf6 so the knight check on e7 might have to come first, or perhaps just play b4-b5 before playing Nf5 (or b4-b5 even before h3?)

all of white's pieces have good activity

OK, back to real calculations : 19...c5, your move. There is no trapping of the knight anymore, and ...Bg6 is threatened in one move.



dashkee94

If 18. h3, c5.  Then if 19. hxg4, cxd4; and if 20. cxd4, Nxg4 with Qg6 and Qh5+ to follow.  Where can the N go?  If 19. Nb5 (say), Bf5 hammering d3, and Qg6 (piling on d3) & Qh5 (attacking the weak k) is still a threat.  White's developement isn't cooperating and his k-side is almost stripped of defenders.  It only takes black 2 to 3 moves to implement some strong ideas; it takes white a few moves longer to do the same.  But black must approach this position with some energy, or white will have an excellent game in a couple of moves.  But I feel that the push c5 soon followed by Qg6 and/or Bf5 give black the advantage here.

dashkee94

pfren, do you mean the diagram in post 44?