1...e5 or 1...c5 against 1.e4?

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1... d6!!
torrubirubi
wrathss wrote:

The eternal question of what to play against 1. e4. For myself the Caro-Kann is the fall back as I have general issues with both 1.. e5 and 1..c5.

 

1.. e5 I almost never play. It is incredibly booked up at all levels and there are simply too many variations. Suppose we always go down the main line, Ruy Lopez Breyer variation, that I am happy with. However just some slight deviation may take me out of book. And if it is not a Ruy Lopez at all such as 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4, the Scotch game is completely different and usually enough to take me out of my comfort zone, as I really don't have a good line against that.

 

1.. c5 the problem is that it is a very aggressive, no margin for error type of opening. If black plays it correctly black will end up equal or better, but if something goes slightly wrong the position collapses and it is suddenly GG. There are a lot of lines and variations to look at. If I play 1.. c5 I usually play the hyper-accelerated dragon (I read a book on this opening), which has relatively fewer variations and the worse black can face is probably the Maroczy bind, which I don't think is that terrible.

I have two books on the hyper-accelerated dragon. I was planing to learn this defence, but I gave up after I read some GMs statements telling that this is rather bad for black. Interestingly I wanted to give a chance to  the Caro-Kann, but after going through several lines I did not like the fact that the character of the defence is everything else as confrontational. I had the impression White could play almost everything against it. So changed to the Scandi, that is the opposite of the Caro-Kann in the sense that Black forces White to decide what to do in the second move (not taking the pawn is just dubious for White).

torrubirubi
varelse1 wrote:

But if I may offer from my experience with 1...c5, I won't say I have never lost a game. Nor will I say I have lost less, than I did playing 1....c6.

But I will say I have always gotten at least some counterplay, for my troubles, playing the Sicilian.

I have always had a fightng chance.

Then I compare that to my playing the Caro-Kann. When things went bad in that opening, all I could do is cower in the corner, watching as my opponent amassed his final assault.

Going down fighting is better.

It makes a lot of sense.

torrubirubi
MickinMD wrote:

All established openings are good and it depends on what fits your style of play, so you can't simply ask others for their opinion on what's best: it's like asking what's the best shoe size.

I suggest looking at a book that surveys the openings in terms of the ideas behind them - even the old Reuben Fine book, Ideas Behind the Openings is still good.

You say, for example you've played 1...c6.  Do you understand that the point is to get the QB outside your P-chain before ...e6 makes it a "Bad Bishop," that if White plays the Advance you can undermine his P-chain with ...c5 or ...b6 or ...f6 and that playing ...Nbd7 not only supports those moves but prevents White from setting up a N-Outpost at c5 or e5?

You should understand those principles about all the variations you're considering in terms of Najdorf (...a6 prevents Bb5+ -why is that good? It also helps prepare for a Black Q-side expansion), Dragon (what can the fiancettoed B do for you?), etc. Sicilians - know WHY the opening is the way it is and if it fits your style.

I have Fine's book, I just have the impression that so much stuff went on in the openings since this book was published that I am not sure if reading it will be a big help. In the Caro-Kann, for example, there are some hair-raising sacrifices that were absolutely unknown in this time. This is the main reason that I took the Scandi as defence to e4 (with the Queen going back to d8 instead of a5 or d6): I only know two lines where White can sacrifice a piece for an attack (and of course I avoid them). Even being obviously against opening principles, the Scandi is good to equalise the game, and there are several lines where White can blunder by playing intuitively. There are several IMs and some GMs playing regularly this defence.

torrubirubi
Indirect wrote:

I used to be an e4 player when I was younger, but about 6-7 years ago (I was a 1300 in 7th grade) I got enough money to buy my first chess book, Play the Sicilian Dragon by Edward Dearing.

I read it completely during the summer and the beggining of my 8th grade year but the main problem for me was that I knew all the lines, but most lines involve the Rook sac on c3 and outplaying your in the endgame with a Knight and perfect pawn structure vs rook and bad pawn structure. (assuming the game isn't over by move 19 because of a small inaccuracy by either player) and I didn't know much about endgames so I would lose many games. 

It wasn't until I put emphasis on my endgames (specially the endgames that arise from my openings that my rating skyrocketed 600 points in about 15 tournaments. 

My point is that my opening knowledge was basically useless until I knew how to finish games. My two cents would be to look at the endings that usually arise from the opening you want to play, study it, and then study the opening. 

Ohh, and although the Najdorf is highly theoretical, so is the Spanish, Italian, and even the Scotch, so don't worry about people thinking you're too low rated to play an opening, that's bs, if you feel comfortable play it. 

I've played the Najdorf as well, and I like it, but one thing you must know is that sometimes your king will be safer in the center, so you're gonna have get comfortable with those positions.

Exactly, endgames which arise from your opening. I think that even tactics which are common in a given openings would be interesting. If somebody develop a website with such tools (how to learn tactics / endgames which are relevant for a certain opening) it would be a success. 

BlueKnightShade

If the question is whether to play 1... e5 or 1... c5 as an answer to 1. e4 I would say get experience with both and find out what you like. I would say that it doesn't matter that you don't know a lot of long book lines. You can catch up on that later on. Better to get an understanding of the basic idea behind a certain opening and to get experience with the type of positions you run into in that opening. Then you will have something to built on if you later on want to study that opening to a deeper degree.

kindaspongey
torrubirubi wrote:

... I have Fine's book, I just have the impression that so much stuff went on in the openings since this book was published that I am not sure if reading it will be a big help. In the Caro-Kann, for example, there are some hair-raising sacrifices that were absolutely unknown in this time. ...

https://web.archive.org/web/20140708112658/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/review315.pdf

About half a century ago, I think the Fine book was considered to be nearly essential reading, but now, I fear that its information is seriously out-of-date. Also, I do not think that it has much in the way of sample games which, in my opinion, are the best way to get a quick idea about whether or not one would want to learn more about an opening. The Mammoth Book of Chess is not devoted exclusively to openings, but about 170 pages are on that subject.
https://web.archive.org/web/20140708093123/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/review756.pdf

I think this book differs from most others in that it uses a lot of sample games to illustrate openings. For more about various specific individual possibilities, one can look at:
Starting Out: Open Games
https://web.archive.org/web/20140626232452/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen134.pdf
Starting Out: Ruy Lopez
https://web.archive.org/web/20140627024240/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen53.pdf
The Petroff: Move by Move
https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/7530.pdf
Starting Out: The Sicilian
https://web.archive.org/web/20140627122350/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen123.pdf
First Steps: The French
https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/7611.pdf
Opening Repertoire: ...c6.
https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/7673.pdf
The Pirc: Move by Move
https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/7604.pdf
First Steps: The Modern
https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/7700.pdf
The Scandinavian: Move by Move
https://web.archive.org/web/20140626232217/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen171.pdf
https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/7270.pdf

My First Chess Opening Repertoire for Black by Moret

https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/9050.pdf

The Alekhine Defence: Move by Move
https://www.everymanchess.com/downloadable/download/sample/sample_id/69/