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Avatar of Ziryab
Xieff wrote:

Blitz does help. It forces you to calculate faster, develop, and devise faster. It is a good training tool to help one be more efficient with his/her time.

Blitz develops and reinforces bad habits. IF the time that I have spent playing online blitz had been invested in reading chess books, I would be a master.

However, blitz is fun and I am an addict: http://chessskill.blogspot.com/2009/01/blitz-addiction.html

Avatar of Xieff
Ziryab wrote:
Xieff wrote:

Blitz does help. It forces you to calculate faster, develop, and devise faster. It is a good training tool to help one be more efficient with his/her time.

Blitz develops and reinforces bad habits. IF the time that I have spent playing online blitz had been invested in reading chess books, I would be a master.

However, blitz is fun and I am an addict: http://chessskill.blogspot.com/2009/01/blitz-addiction.html

I disagree. It doens't develop bad habits unless you are a little kid and cannot have good judgement about how to play in a longer time control. As long as you aren't moving too fast in a tournament it is ok. Blitz quickens a person.

Avatar of dashkee94

Blitz is like candy; too much is bad for you.  But you can't stop at one, can you?

Avatar of Ziryab

@Xieff I'm older than you, but maybe you know more about blitz. I've only played 60,000 games online. I was in my 30s before I played more than a handful of blitz games.

Avatar of Xieff
Ziryab wrote:

@Xieff I'm older than you, but maybe you know more about blitz. I've only played 60,000 games online. I was in my 30s before I played more than a handful of blitz games.

I know that you are older than me. Trust me lol. But I have heard both sides of the argument and I believe both are true in different cases. I agree, too much blitz could be bad for you, but I don't actually play that much blitz. If one trully wants to improve their blitz then they will force themselves to scan the board faster and preform all the normal tasks faster. Unless one is just playing blitz for the fun and making insane moves for the fear of time. If he/she is scanning faster then he/she can also learn to do so in an OTB game with longer TC. As long as he/she doesn't make the move too fast. The faster one is calculating, the further he/she can see down a line, the more lines he/she can consider.

Avatar of TheArtofWar82
Xieff wrote:
Ziryab wrote:

@Xieff I'm older than you, but maybe you know more about blitz. I've only played 60,000 games online. I was in my 30s before I played more than a handful of blitz games.

I know that you are older than me. Trust me lol. But I have heard both sides of the argument and I believe both are true in different cases. I agree, too much blitz could be bad for you, but I don't actually play that much blitz. If one trully wants to improve their blitz then they will force themselves to scan the board faster and preform all the normal tasks faster. Unless one is just playing blitz for the fun and making insane moves for the fear of time. If he/she is scanning faster then he/she can also learn to do so in an OTB game with longer TC. As long as he/she doesn't make the move too fast. The faster one is calculating, the further he/she can see down a line, the more lines he/she can consider.

In all seriousness in this thread: Could we maybe meet halfway and agree that the productivity of blitz chess is subjective and might not be the best course of action for every player looking to improve OTB? 

I know for me that starting out playing blitz chess while first learning the game turned into a disaster - and I have a few friends IRL who had a similar experience. It narrowed our vision and ability to see several moves ahead and led to horrible, horrible superficial moves and blunders. 

What I have heard from many experienced players is that there are benefits to blitz chess for players who have already attained a certain level of tactical proficiency. Prior to that, however, it very well may stunt progress and create very poor habits. 

Can we maybe agree on that much? 

There is just such an overwhelming amount of advice out there that instructs players learning to improve to play long, OTB games and analyze them with better players afterwards. Simultaneously, most of these same sources discourage beginners from playing blitz chess pretty much at all.

I mean, I understand you have a USCF rating but it's sub 1300. I haven't had one player I've talked to in person, who had a 1600+ rating, who told me anything other than "stay away from blitz chess at all costs, dude". I'm not fabricating this.

I know that in my case, I didn't stop hanging pieces and committing mind numbing blunders every game until I slowed down, started playing longer games, and spent more time OTB. Blitz chess was absolutely ruining me prior.

My goal is to reach 2000 one day and I don't see how I could ever accomplish that by contributing a decent chunk of my training time to blitz chess as I try to improve. Honestly? I don't think I'd progress much farther than I have already if I didn't spend a lot of time playing OTB standard time controls and avoid blitz chess entirely. 

edit: On top of all of this - Even on ChessTempo, the resident GMs over there strictly discourage even doing blitz tactical problems. They detail how an improving player needs to do standard problems and take as much time as is necessary on each one until they can see the tactic/pattern required. Once again - These are guys rated over 2500 OTB USCF/FIDE.

http://chesstempo.com/chess-forum/chess_tactics_discussion/tips_for_improving_your_tactics_training-t811.0.html;msg5325#msg5325

Avatar of Ziryab

I have played too much blitz. I'm a binge blitzer in search of a twelve-step group for blitz addicts. This excess has assured:

1. There is nothing that I have not seen in actual play.

2. I know that I can checkmate my opponent by promoting pawns to bishops, and that I can do this with 15-20 seconds left on the clock.

3. With two queens I can deliver checkmate in four moves, usually in the middle of the board (it is shocking how many players cannot checkmate a defender in the board's center).

4. I have a a database of 55,000 of my own games because I exclude the 20,000 bullet games.

5. I am prone to expecting my opponents to play stupid moves OTB, and this tendency hurts me in tournament play.

6. My mind naturally seeks two and three move tactical shots that every OTB player over 1400 sees.

7. My reckless attacks have received positive reinforcement so extensive that I may need reprogramming along the lines of the end of A Clockwork Orange in order to have any hopes of making master.

8. Self-discipline to play a limited number of blitz games on any given day, followed by objective postgame analysis of each and every game may be a way out between the twelve-step group and the deprogramming. See http://chessskill.blogspot.com/2013/05/improving-through-blitz.html.

Avatar of Xieff
TheArtofWar82 wrote:
Xieff wrote:
Ziryab wrote:

@Xieff I'm older than you, but maybe you know more about blitz. I've only played 60,000 games online. I was in my 30s before I played more than a handful of blitz games.

I know that you are older than me. Trust me lol. But I have heard both sides of the argument and I believe both are true in different cases. I agree, too much blitz could be bad for you, but I don't actually play that much blitz. If one trully wants to improve their blitz then they will force themselves to scan the board faster and preform all the normal tasks faster. Unless one is just playing blitz for the fun and making insane moves for the fear of time. If he/she is scanning faster then he/she can also learn to do so in an OTB game with longer TC. As long as he/she doesn't make the move too fast. The faster one is calculating, the further he/she can see down a line, the more lines he/she can consider.

In all seriousness in this thread: Could we maybe meet halfway and agree that the productivity of blitz chess is subjective and might not be the best course of action for every player looking to improve OTB? 

I know for me that starting out playing blitz chess while first learning the game turned into a disaster - and I have a few friends IRL who had a similar experience. It narrowed our vision and ability to see several moves ahead and led to horrible, horrible superficial moves and blunders. 

What I have heard from many experienced players is that there are benefits to blitz chess for players who have already attained a certain level of tactical proficiency. Prior to that, however, it very well may stunt progress and create very poor habits. 

Can we maybe agree on that much? 

There is just such an overwhelming amount of advice out there that instructs players learning to improve to play long, OTB games and analyze them with better players afterwards. Simultaneously, most of these same sources discourage beginners from playing blitz chess pretty much at all.

I mean, I understand you have a USCF rating but it's sub 1300. I haven't had one player I've talked to in person, who had a 1600+ rating, who told me anything other than "stay away from blitz chess at all costs, dude". I'm not fabricating this.

I know that in my case, I didn't stop hanging pieces and committing mind numbing blunders every game until I slowed down, started playing longer games, and spent more time OTB. Blitz chess was absolutely ruining me prior.

My goal is to reach 2000 one day and I don't see how I could ever accomplish that by contributing a decent chunk of my training time to blitz chess as I try to improve. Honestly? I don't think I'd progress much farther than I have already if I didn't spend a lot of time playing OTB standard time controls and avoid blitz chess entirely. 

edit: On top of all of this - Even on ChessTempo, the resident GMs over there strictly discourage even doing blitz tactical problems. They detail how an improving player needs to do standard problems and take as much time as is necessary on each one until they can see the tactic/pattern required. Once again - These are guys rated over 2500 OTB USCF/FIDE.

http://chesstempo.com/chess-forum/chess_tactics_discussion/tips_for_improving_your_tactics_training-t811.0.html;msg5325#msg5325

I agree, blitz can be harmful depending on who you are, and I am not telling you that you should do blitz for improvement. But personally I think in small amounts it has helped me a bit. My rating is 1295 but not for long. I will update it lol. I beat 2 1400s, one 1600, drew a 1600, and lost to a 1500 and a 1600 last tournament. What does that say? lol

Avatar of Ziryab
Xieff wrote:
TheArtofWar82 wrote:
Xieff wrote:
Ziryab wrote:

@Xieff I'm older than you, but maybe you know more about blitz. I've only played 60,000 games online. I was in my 30s before I played more than a handful of blitz games.

I know that you are older than me. Trust me lol. But I have heard both sides of the argument and I believe both are true in different cases. I agree, too much blitz could be bad for you, but I don't actually play that much blitz. If one trully wants to improve their blitz then they will force themselves to scan the board faster and preform all the normal tasks faster. Unless one is just playing blitz for the fun and making insane moves for the fear of time. If he/she is scanning faster then he/she can also learn to do so in an OTB game with longer TC. As long as he/she doesn't make the move too fast. The faster one is calculating, the further he/she can see down a line, the more lines he/she can consider.

In all seriousness in this thread: Could we maybe meet halfway and agree that the productivity of blitz chess is subjective and might not be the best course of action for every player looking to improve OTB? 

I know for me that starting out playing blitz chess while first learning the game turned into a disaster - and I have a few friends IRL who had a similar experience. It narrowed our vision and ability to see several moves ahead and led to horrible, horrible superficial moves and blunders. 

What I have heard from many experienced players is that there are benefits to blitz chess for players who have already attained a certain level of tactical proficiency. Prior to that, however, it very well may stunt progress and create very poor habits. 

Can we maybe agree on that much? 

There is just such an overwhelming amount of advice out there that instructs players learning to improve to play long, OTB games and analyze them with better players afterwards. Simultaneously, most of these same sources discourage beginners from playing blitz chess pretty much at all.

I mean, I understand you have a USCF rating but it's sub 1300. I haven't had one player I've talked to in person, who had a 1600+ rating, who told me anything other than "stay away from blitz chess at all costs, dude". I'm not fabricating this.

I know that in my case, I didn't stop hanging pieces and committing mind numbing blunders every game until I slowed down, started playing longer games, and spent more time OTB. Blitz chess was absolutely ruining me prior.

My goal is to reach 2000 one day and I don't see how I could ever accomplish that by contributing a decent chunk of my training time to blitz chess as I try to improve. Honestly? I don't think I'd progress much farther than I have already if I didn't spend a lot of time playing OTB standard time controls and avoid blitz chess entirely. 

edit: On top of all of this - Even on ChessTempo, the resident GMs over there strictly discourage even doing blitz tactical problems. They detail how an improving player needs to do standard problems and take as much time as is necessary on each one until they can see the tactic/pattern required. Once again - These are guys rated over 2500 OTB USCF/FIDE.

http://chesstempo.com/chess-forum/chess_tactics_discussion/tips_for_improving_your_tactics_training-t811.0.html;msg5325#msg5325

I agree, blitz can be harmful depending on who you are, and I am not telling you that you should do blitz for improvement. But personally I think in small amounts it has helped me a bit. My rating is 1295 but not for long. I will update it lol. I beat 2 1400s, one 1600, drew a 1600, and lost to a 1500 and a 1600 last tournament. What does that say? lol

Are you an addict? Do you play blitz from sunrise to sunset? Do you analyze your games?

Avatar of Xieff

No lol I already told you I don't play blitz often. I have only played one blitz tournament in my life and I don't play that often on chess.com. I don't analyze my games simply because I know theres no point because in blitz everyone usually makes a decent amount of mistakes. lol

Avatar of Ziryab
Xieff wrote:

No lol I already told you I don't play blitz often. I have only played one blitz tournament in my life and I don't play that often on chess.com. I don't analyze my games simply because I know theres no point because in blitz everyone usually makes a decent amount of mistakes. lol

You should analyze your blitz games. Read the post at the link that I provided above.

When my addiction is held in check, I spend 20-30 minutes analyzing a game that took less than ten to play. Two games, one hour: improvement becomes likely. Four hours, fifty games: bad habits are reinforced.

Avatar of PAMetalBoss

How the hell could you have played 55,000 blitz games? You must be seriously addicted to chess.

Avatar of TheArtofWar82
PAMetalBoss wrote:

How the hell could you have played 55,000 blitz games? You must be seriously addicted to chess.

Yet he insists that his dogs are his life and not chess. This man is insane.

Avatar of Ziryab

That's over fifteen years. Approximately ten games per day. Some people play a lot more.

Avatar of TheArtofWar82
Ziryab wrote:

That's over fifteen years.

Dude, come on. I've even supported you in threads but let's not pretend that chess isn't a serious, serious addiction of yours. 

I agree with you - I think it's the best game on earth. However, I openly admit that I'm going to prioritize chess until I hit 2000. You insist you prioritize your dogs. 

They're gorgeous dogs, though - I'll give you that. I have a beautiful (yet freakishly huge) purebread pitbull. He's black and white and 135 lbs. Really. We have no idea what happened but he's long, muscular, and wide lol. I'll try to get a picture of him up here in the next couple of days. He's a great, great dog and not my first pit. I like to bring them into my fold before the dog fighters get ahold of them. 

True fact about pitbulls: They love, and I mean love their beds lol.

Avatar of waffllemaster
PAMetalBoss wrote:

How the hell could you have played 55,000 blitz games? You must be seriously addicted to chess.

Heh, the novice's glimpse into the experience of an average club player.  Initial reports say PAMetal is dazed and confused.  Chances for recovery are good while thoughts of anyone being able to be a GM in a few years after reading 1 book are all but gone.

Avatar of winerkleiner

You guys/gals are some serious chess players!

Avatar of TheArtofWar82
winerkleiner wrote:

You guys/gals are some serious chess players!

gg on that sub 1300 correspondence rating there, buddy.

Avatar of TheArtofWar82

You got that right. And i'mma win!

Avatar of winerkleiner

My measuring stick hangs to the ground, lol.