A science? Or mathematics?

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Avatar of Hawaiian_King
i think some people are commenting like i meant chess was discovered in a lab at Harvard
Avatar of blueemu
AllDaLadiesLuvLeo wrote:
... and @blueemu i somewhat agree about the craft part but what’s the difference between an art and a craft to you?

Several differences. Art is an expression that comes from the heart and soul, while craft derives from the mind and from experience. Art is more open-ended, while craft is more structured.

There is, of course, considerable overlap. M.C.Escher's graphics works fall into this "overlap" category, and so do the chess games of some masters such as Tal and Reti.

Avatar of DrSpudnik
AllDaLadiesLuvLeo wrote:
to say it’s just a hobby and nothing more than a game is kinda weird imo because why would we have computers playing it now? computers don’t need a hobby i think ghost horse is onto it when he says it’s blending them all as well iambbw what do you think it is then

Computers can play Chutes and Ladders if you program them to.

It's a game. Don't overthink it.

Avatar of Hawaiian_King
ah @blueemu that is one of the first things i read that makes total sense to me
Avatar of blueemu
AllDaLadiesLuvLeo wrote:
ah @blueemu that is one of the first things i read that makes total sense to me

Every once in a while I surface from my senile degeneration and say something remarkably coherent.

Avatar of Hawaiian_King
i feel you hermano 90% of the things i day are unintelligible slurs of nonsense but there is that 10%..
Avatar of Hawaiian_King
well said
Avatar of Titled_Patzer

 The OP has revised the topic thread to - "Does chess involve more mathematical thinking or scientific thinking?"

This is an entirely different subject matter than asking is chess science or is chess mathematics. The thinking process by chess players has been described in several ways, math/science thinking not being one of them. This topic is rather mundane and subjective, not interesting imo. - simply because there are a hundred different answers for every hundred players. I was interested in defining what chess "Is." A hobby. Too many people enter playing chess with misconceptions. When realization sinks in regarding what chess is not, (things they hoped it was) they quickly lose interest. I feel if they were better informed, looked objectively at the game, the "spirit" and sportsmanship that chess represents, they just might take part for a longer period. The original question asked is chess math or science. Imo, clearly it is neither. This appears to be an attempt to elevate chess to a higher status, a mistake that when realized (such as the typical -chess is a measure of intelligence-) soon ends with people quitting all together.  

I'll ask the OP who says he/she has been playing but for a few weeks. Why did you start playing, and what are your expectations ? I sincerely hope, that you find the game fun to play is part of the answer and not that you think by winning chess games you will have proven something to the rest of us. Maybe, proving something to yourself is part of it, but that comes much later.

 

Avatar of Hawaiian_King
i just think it’s fun and i like seeing the little pieces move on the board dude 🤷🏽‍♂️ i’m not a philosopher just a curious boi
Avatar of blueemu
9497010838 wrote:
PawnStorm once again erects post which is unintelligible. Who is the “he” being referenced?

M.C.Escher.

 

Avatar of Coffee_Player

As it was told once: Life is chess, and chess is life. Computers or even most advanced AI couldn't understand chess because life is multidimensional illusion tongue.png

Avatar of Hawaiian_King
the computers hobby at that point will be torturing humans
Avatar of Titled_Patzer
9497010838 wrote:
Leo makes very funny post, “Computers don’t need a hobby.”

But what if they do someday? That’s when we should become very afraid....

You should already be "afraid."

And chess engines will take some credit as AI developes itself into AGI (artificial general intelligence), soon followed by ASI (artificial super intelligence.) This is where AGI will have learned to program itself. There is no way of knowing if this ASI will be a benevolent "God" and take kindly to us humans, or find us irrelevant. Programmers see this as being but 10 years away, some think but 5, while others claim it is already here. Doubt this ? Google is spending Billions, in programming present AI with the hope that the inevitable ASI will take kindly to you and I.

Avatar of Coffee_Player

@Titled_Patzer - if we believe in science of evolution... the ASI (Artificial Super Intelligence) will kill all human beings on planet Earth, like it happened on planet Kaylon according to "The Orville Prophecy" evil.png

Avatar of DrSpudnik
9497010838 wrote:
When will skynet come online?

Just in time for the endgame.

Avatar of Titled_Patzer

It is inevitable that AGI will no longer need humans for programming. Leela  and Lc0 chess engines are good examples. Simply by having the rules of the game programmed, these self learning programs are rapidly surpassing all previous efforts at achieving AI. It is indeed scary if ASI is left to it's own devices and allowed to develop unchecked. It won't be simply a matter of "unplugging" the monster, as it will have already taken control of the web, smart phones and super-computers. The question becomes, can we "control" how this monster views us humans with programming before it realizes it no longer needs us.

The problem is possibly out of any controls, as the rewards are too great. Too many enterprises, foreign counties, reckless developers, all  want the vast monetary rewards and have no concerns of the consequences of AI > AGI > ASI. 

Avatar of krazykat1975

I like to think of chess as a mental game of tug o war. If math or science can help with the tugging...so be it. 

Avatar of DrSpudnik
9497010838 wrote:
DrSpudnik: Do you know when that will be? 949 needs to prepare, I am a prepper. Provisions will be allocated into basement for survival.

Resistance is futile! Just stock up a liquor cabinet and hope for the best.

Avatar of Titled_Patzer

"AI is a fundamental risk to the existence of human civilization."

"I have exposure to the most cutting edge AI, and I think people should be really concerned by it," Musk said at the National Governors Association. "AI is a fundamental risk to the existence of human civilization in a way that car accidents, airplane crashes, faulty drugs or bad food were not — they were harmful to a set of individuals within society, of course, but they were not harmful to society as a whole." 

According to Musk, an essential part of the solution is proactive and immediate regulatory oversight. "AI is a rare case where I think we need to be proactive in regulation than be reactive," he says. Musk has also co-founded nonprofit Open AI to help.  - Elon Musk

Avatar of Coffee_Player
Titled_Patzer wrote:

It is inevitable that AGI will no longer need humans for programming. ------

The question becomes, can we "control" how this monster views us humans with programming before it realizes it no longer needs us.

The problem is possibly out of any controls, as the rewards are too great. Too many enterprises, foreign counties, reckless developers, all  want the vast monetary rewards and have no concerns of the consequences of AI > AGI > ASI. 

"AI is a fundamental risk to the existence of human civilization."

@Titled_Patzer - are you time traveller? wink.png