A TALLY OF DATABASE-USERS & NON-USERS

Non-User - I see chess as a game of minds not machines/references.

When asking for a correspondence game people should indicate whether they will use reference material or not.

If I wanted to play a computer I would pick that option.

Then again at my ranking many people probably do not use referance materials.

As of 10/3/08:

Users - 82, Non-Users -95

As of 10/3/08:

Users - 82, Non-Users -96

Non-user.  I come to play chess with my brain, not lookup what someone else did and mimic it.  I expect the same of my opponent but, there being no way to enforce that, I suppose I have to live with the fact that I'll be playing against people using these tools.  i've never tried such methods, seems like it would be a very unsatisfying way to play.

Some say they will do anything within the rules of correspondence chess, anything to win i guess.  I wonder, is playing two other players against off against each other, against the rules, ala derren brown?

http://www.chess.com/video/view/derren-brown-beats-9-chess-pla

I admit I tried this once on facebook, worked great, I challenged the top 2 rated players, lost one game, won the other my rating jumped up of course.  Some would consider that cheating, but didn't I just refer to a database, a database that happened to only have one game in it?

i think opening books, databases, etc. are a useful learning tool, but when used in game, cheapen the sport.

I did not use a database during a game of correspondence chess. I only use it before or after the game for study!

As of 10/3/08:

Users - 82, Non-Users -97

As of 10/3/08:

Users - 82, Non-Users -98

Yes, it is against the rules and no, it's not like using a database. Using a database requires judgement when deciding between candidate moves, just like playing without one. At some point your opponent will move off-line and you will have to continue without the use of the database. If you didn't understand what the moves were leading to then you are in trouble.

In your example the game was live, you made no decisions other than the original one to play these players off against each other and it could never move off-line. It would be the same as using an engine because you were getting an external source to calculate all your moves for you and make all decisions from the candidate moves without any effort on your part.

I use the opening explorer to help me to understand the progression of openings and how to gain the best position since my book collection is rather limited. I never use any help during a game. I agree with the previous poster. Unless you know where you were going with the moves the database won't help you. So I don't think there is a problem using them during a game and I think that many beginners and inexperienced players will benefit by using them to learn but I would have to fall into the category of a non-user myself.

As of 10/3/08:

Users - 82, Non-Users -99

exactly, it would be the same outcome, whether using a database or a live game as a reference, i'd still be using someone elses logic, requiring no skill whatsoever. I feel this cheapens the game, which was sort of my point in posting that i am a non user.

That said, i've just done some reading on freestyle chess and advanced chess and I can now see how this advances the game as a whole.  By using these tools you can become a stronger player and learn to think like a grandmaster.

I predict that eventually chess will be "solved" so to speak, it's only a matter of time before computing resources will allow a computer to defeat any human opponent.

to be clear, can someone link me to where it's stated that use of databases is allowed on this site? 

a link to where it says you cannot pair off other players against each other would be great too.

This is from the FAQ:

http://support.chess.com/index.php?_m=knowledgebase&_a=viewarticle&kbarticleid=17&nav=0,6

It says you can consult books and databases. I am thinking that playing one player against another would be getting help from another person and therefore forbidden.

I suspect the Terms of Service (there is a link at the bottom of the page) would contain more information.

thanks for the help!

it's ok

He said, "I never use any help during a game."

Or would you want to ask him yourself?

I do not use opening databases in a rated game

As of 10/4/08:

Users - 82, Non-Users -100

Some losers can't just go gracefully. And pitiably so. (Why, they can make their own tally, right? But they insist to stay in this thread. I wonder why. I rest my case.)

SOME TIMES, BUT ONLY ONCE OR TWICE...

PROBABLY A USER...

THEN ITS...

Users - 83, Non-Users -100

The chess.com survey on the homepage is in broad agreement with this tally's numbers.

Do you use opening databases, books or other reference materials when playing turn-based correspondence chess (e-chess)?

• Yes. (33%)
• No. (44%)
• I didn't know that using that stuff was allowed.(13%)
• What's an opening database? (10%)

It may be time to accept that just about all that can reasonably be said has been said. I intend to do ONE FINAL LIST - and then call it a day. My thanks to Mainstreet for initiating such an interesting and remarkably rational (on the whole) discussion - and for moderating it with diplomacy and equity.