Analysis and cheating?

So do you use the Analysis board to basically play out a move, to see if it is a good sequence of moves or not, i looked at it but didnt really understand what i was looking at (yes im dumb), probably explains why my score isn't going back over 1100

That's precisely what it's for.

playing against a known opening is like playing against a GM. Opening databases are at grandmaster level. therefore I think opening databases are more like cheating. 

but ok you could be blessed with a good memory and learn 10 openings and variation 18 moves deep and use it OTB. I know one who can. he can mention an opening Scillician e4 c5..... like saying abc 18 moves deep. 

analysis board is limited to your chess knowledge you cannot look for patterns you don't know of and you still have to evaluate if the position reached after 10 moves is good or bad. and analysis board heps improves your chess vision.

therefore analysis board is not cheating as it is limited to your chess skills.

Turn-based chess is internet corresspondence chess. It replaces the traditional correspondence chess where moves were exchanged by snail mail. So you always had your board set up in the current position. You could move the pieces around to your heaart's content. The analysis board is no different than that.

CaptainBob said: "It has also helped me in visualizing  the game in a much clearer way, than I had been."

BobbyDK said: "... analysis board heps [sic] improves your chess vision."

I really don't expect an answer to the following question, but I'll ask it anyway. How can an analysis board help chess visualization if you are looking at a variation with a board and not really visualization the board mentally?

Because you can study variations that you would be unable to  without the board and they stick in your mind for later use.

My calculation / visualization noticeably improved when I worked chess problems from a diagram in 2-3 hour sessions.  Some problems I'd spend 30 minutes on.

If you're saying you can study variations deeper / more clearly -- that's obvious.  If you're asking how it improves your actual skill, I don't see how it could.

The answer is simple now when I play OTB I start to move the pieces in my mind like I would on the analysis board.

furthermore I am training a lot on Tactics Trainer and there I am forced to see the whole variation in my mind before I move. I spent 42 hours on TT in 2 months.

it might be a combination of these two but I think I start to see deeper than before.

I use the analysis board in conjunction with the notes tab. When I was playing dozens of games, it was a great way of keeping my game state on paper, so that I could quickly refresh my mind with my previous analysis. This is the reason why I did it. But there are two additional advantages:

1. Going over the game at a later point becomes MUCH easier. If you go over the game with the aid of a computer, then you can check whether you saw the computer-generated variations during the game. You can also computer-check the variations that you wrote down that may not have happened during the game. If you don't go over the game with a computer, you can at least see the places where your analysis of possible opponent moves was faulty (when your opponent played something else besides what you analyzed).
2. I found that I was able to structure my thoughts better in OTB chess. I don't know if this would happen for everybody, but the act of writing down a move tree seemed to help me organize my thoughts better, and to therefore make better use of my time.

This makes sense -- I wonder if high quality written analysis on a position (or even a game) would work in the same way.

 With all respect, why not just play Live Chess?  Thats about as close to OTB chess as you will get on a computer.

Regardless of the visualization handicap, you still need good evaluation skills after you go down lines to see if it is good for you or not. I think that's what separates the big guys from the rest of us.

However, I DO think the analysis board minimizes certain types of analysis errors such as :

1. Seeing "ghost" pieces (thinking a piece is there when it already moved or traded off)

2. Counting errors (after 3-4 pieces fly off the board from both sides in a complicated tactical position, getting the material balance muddled up)

3. Misplaying Mating net/combinations (one of my frequent bad habits) ... when I am about to close on a net and deliver mate, I miss in-between moves and escape squares for the king)

4. The most important : Sacrificing combinations: The psychological pressure to "succeed" when  letting go of a major piece is mitigated by "proving" that the forced combo (via analysis boards) is actually there. I've bravely sac'ed many a piece on correspondence chess  :)

Of course, all these 4 reasons are precisely why you should never use analysis boards, man up and grind these things in your head until you get these right without using a crutch. *grin.

Disagree. How can you help yourself avoid errors of the #1, #2, and #3 variety without knowing that they're a problem in the first place? Better to attempt remedies in-game than to always be analyzing post-mortem. I actually think that those in the "do it without the analysis board" camp are simply looking for a rationalization to avoid work...

Doesn't it depend on where you are at?  For players starting out, what you're saying is spot on  ... but for those who are a little more experienced AND  need to push beyond their boundaries to get better,  wouldn't these "training wheels" reinforce their laziness? To make matters worse, if I scalped a higher-rated "only" thanks to the analysis board, what is my incentive to wean away from it? 

Don't get me wrong ... I loved the analysis boards and used them a lot ... but it looks like I used them for all the wrong reasons (listed above). I felt a lot better about my club/OTB tourney play when I started to do it in my head.  The games I lose due to errors such as #1/#2/#3 burn a whole lot more and make me want to make these mistakes less.

This is interesting.  I played CC with a friend (2 games going all the time) for about 2 years, and the analysis board made me lazier over time but I was just trying to find an acceptable move quickly... I guess if you're looking for the best move it would help.  I'll have to give the analysis board more credit.

Well, my experience with the analysis board in the past was to avoid work but like I just now replied to LizaV, I wasn't looking for the best moves.  I suppose if you pushed yourself to sort through all the variations and candidate moves this would be a very nice learning tool to use and I can see how you'd say it would add work.

But I still think there's a place for practicing visualization.  Right now I'm confident my visualization goes far beyond what I can possibly attempt to calculate and evaluate correctly... 95% of the time I only need 6-10 ply for my level of play.  But there was a time when just 3-4 ply was confusing and I'd have to re-calculate and re-calculate until I could see the end position correctly to then attempt an evaluation.  I think many lower class players/beginners do this during tournaments, and so practicing moving the pieces "in your head" i.e. visualization is important ... even if to a master it might sound silly

And just for the record I've used the analysis board or something similar (winboard) in all my CC games on this site to check lines, blunder check, etc.  Only a few times I've done an analysis tree, where I explore multiple likely replies a long way out...

One of these cases where I took time to make a tree of analysis was my brilliant sacrifice against Shivsky... where 3 moves into it he played the best defense, a move I missed, and proved my brilliancy was a blunder instead

It would actually be a lot of fun to take that much time/effort in every CC game... but what a time investment!

The built-in Analysis Board is just a concession to the way old school Correspondence Chess used to be played. Even if Chess.com got rid of it, there would be nothing stopping people from simply setting up a real board with which they can "analyze" the position and test out variations.

It's the same thing with books. You can't ban someone from reading any chess books whatsoever as long as they have a game going, and there isn't any practical way to enforce this, so you just have to make it legal for everyone. Of course, if you're an OTB or tournament purest, you would certainly scoff at the idea of someone getting up from the table to picking up a copy of MCO or googling "Czech Benoni" on their iPhone right in the middle of the game.

What some people don't realize is that a lot of chess is not all about calculation, but instead a few other things like evaluation of a position, and knowing where certain tactics come from and which moves to consider are quite important as well. It's common to have a certain tactic or move starting at you in the face, yet you still don't see it coming because your mind doesn't know the pattern. The analysis board, yeah it helps a ton, that's a part of this type of game, but it is absolutely ludicrous to claim that it's hardly even chess if one uses it. It makes calculation less of an issue and focuses more on making a good plan. Unfortunately for us mortals, an analysis board is still very, very far from making us chess geniuses.

My favorite type of game is OTB, but I like cc for what it is and appreciate how you can be relaxed, think deeply, and not have to calculate too much while playing a game.