Anyone else have zero to little talent at the game?

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Avatar of SeniorPatzer
Lucas_Bomfim wrote:

I have over 800 games and less than 800 rating. Maybe I should just stop playing and do like Tarrasch told, just study instead of practicing.

 

Yes.  Increase your ratio of study to play, and that should help considerably.

Avatar of Ziryab
kindaspongey wrote:
Ziryab wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
Ziryab wrote:

... I would not call [capacity for hard work] the "only" quality. Rather, it is the most vital.

Magnus Carlsen, for example, clearly has some intellectual gifts that he developed into chess skill. But, without the intense work that he puts in, you would not know his name. He claims to have spent time studying 10,000 games. This study gives him an enormous array of tools for finding the strongest moves in the new positions that he encounters at work.

Without some capacity for memory, going through 10,000 games might have been a futile exercise. 

What does it mean to say that a quality is “the most vital”? Is the engine more vital to a car than the gas tank?

Yes. 

Cars run on several sorts of fuel. None run without an engine. ...

I did not ask about the sort of fuel. I asked about the gas tank.

 

There is no gas tank on a Tesla. The nature of fuel determines the method for storing it.

Avatar of llamonade2

Spongey asks question.

Ziryab literally answers: "yes"

Spongey, realizing he's been outclassed: "I err, umm, I didn't ask about that!"

lol

This is why I wouldn't bother trying to talk with him.

Avatar of Ziryab
llamonade2 wrote:

Spongey asks question.

Ziryab literally answers: "yes"

Spongey, realizing he's been outclassed: "I err, umm, I didn't ask about that!"

lol

This is why I wouldn't bother trying to talk with him.

 

I know Spongey in real life. He’s a good guy. We don’t always agree, but I really enjoy his banter on this site.

Avatar of llamonade2

@ziryab I've seen you on the forums for over 10 years. You're one of my favorite people.

But Spongey is among my least favorite. You enjoy his banter? I just threw up in my mouth a little.

Those are my honest feelings.

Avatar of Ziryab
llamonade2 wrote:

@ziryab I've seen you on the forums for over 10 years. You're one of my favorite people.

But Spongey is among my least favorite. You enjoy his banter? I just threw up in my mouth a little.

Those are my honest feelings.

 

He has a style that is not easy to love. But it has merits. He and I have played OTB and they have been interesting games.

IRL, he has been credited for helping the likes of Edward Winter. I’m not young, but I’m younger than him and he has done a lot of things that I value highly.

 

I don’t always like his posts here, especially long lists of quotes, but I understand and respect where they come from. 

Avatar of llamonade2

That's not fun for me to hear. I'll be more respectful in the future.

Avatar of kindaspongey
Ziryab wrote: ...
kindaspongey wrote:
Ziryab wrote:

... I would not call [capacity for hard work] the "only" quality. Rather, it is the most vital. ...

What does it mean to say that a quality is “the most vital”? Is the engine more vital to a car than the gas tank?

… There is no gas tank on a Tesla. The nature of fuel determines the method for storing it.

I guess I should have said that I was talking about a gas car. Or how about this, which is more vital to you? Your blood or your brain?

Avatar of Ziryab
kindaspongey wrote:
Ziryab wrote: ...
kindaspongey wrote:
Ziryab wrote:

... I would not call [capacity for hard work] the "only" quality. Rather, it is the most vital. ...

What does it mean to say that a quality is “the most vital”? Is the engine more vital to a car than the gas tank?

… There is no gas tank on a Tesla. The nature of fuel determines the method for storing it.

I guess I should have said that I was talking about a gas car. Or how about this, which is more vital to you? Your blood or your brain?

 

Now we are getting somewhere. Obviously, both are equally essential.

Avatar of llamonade2

As for talent, I recall at one point I was spending 20 hours a week studying only endgames.

I learned a lot that month.

Or spending 3-4 hours a day, every day, working through a selection of tactic puzzles.

I don't think I have talent. I've met 1500s who could play a blindfold game no problem, and in comparison to pros I've done a laughably small amount of work in my lifetime, but the amount I've done makes me better than a lot of people I meet happy.png

 

Avatar of kindaspongey
Ziryab wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
Ziryab wrote: ...
kindaspongey wrote:
Ziryab wrote:

... I would not call [capacity for hard work] the "only" quality. Rather, it is the most vital. ...

What does it mean to say that a quality is “the most vital”? Is the engine more vital to a car than the gas tank?

… There is no gas tank on a Tesla. The nature of fuel determines the method for storing it.

I guess I should have said that I was talking about a gas car. Or how about this, which is more vital to you? Your blood or your brain?

Now we are getting somewhere. Obviously, both are equally essential.

So, if the car didn't run, would it make sense to conclude that the problem was with the engine?

Avatar of kindaspongey

GM Evgeny Sveshnikov:  … Mark Dvoretsky identified four factors, which determine the strength and potential of every chess player:

1) natural talent;

2) health and reserves of energy;

3) determination, willpower and sporting qualities;

4) special chess preparation.

... I told him that he had left the fifth and most important factor out of his list:

5) a love of chess! ...

Avatar of PyriteDragon
I think a lot of people who claim they have no talent are just doing things the wrong way, maybe playing too many games or not practicing enough tactics, or even trying too hard. I wouldn’t call myself “talentless” at chess, but certainly I’ll never be a titled player. I believe I can get better, become a solid player, though the word solid is a bit subjective.
Avatar of kindaspongey
PyriteDragon wrote:
... just doing things the wrong way, maybe playing too many games or not practicing enough tactics, or even trying too hard. ...

Those all strike me as good guesses. It's easy for an unskilled player to get an impression of great talent (in others) from seeing the way some people play so quickly and with so much success. An unskilled player does not necessarily understand how much work can go into the process of reaching a certain level of proficiency. I see little reason to doubt that some people really do have difficulty learning various sorts of chess thinking. If a person is skeptical about the possible benefits of work on chess, it seems reasonable to suggest that it might produce surprisingly positive results, but, at the same time, it seems appropriate to keep in mind the uncertainty involved in any undertaking.

Avatar of Ziryab
PyriteDragon wrote:
I think a lot of people who claim they have no talent are just doing things the wrong way, maybe playing too many games or not practicing enough tactics, or even trying too hard. I wouldn’t call myself “talentless” at chess, but certainly I’ll never be a titled player. I believe I can get better, become a solid player, though the word solid is a bit subjective.

 

I claim that I have no talent as a way of bragging about my work ethic.

 

My friend Spongey sees through the ruse and asks probing questions designed to get me to admit that another person who did the same work could fall short of my achievements, or possibly exceed my skills by a large margin. Although not easy to define, there are probably some innate skills that are not equally distributed among all individuals that go a long way towards determining the effectiveness of hard work.

 

My most frustrating third grade student, for example (more than ten years ago), was presented to me by his teacher as a gifted student with test scores near the top. His reading and math skills were exceptional. But, he struggled so much with something spatial that even ten hours in half hour blocks stretched over three months were insufficient for him to master the elementary checkmate of rook and king against a lone king.

It is also possible that my teaching ability has improved since then, however. Given another chance, I might be able to teach him this skill in a few hours. Most students get it in twenty minutes of one-on-one instruction.

Avatar of SeniorPatzer

"But, he struggled so much with something spatial that even ten hours in half hour blocks stretched over three months were insufficient for him to master the elementary checkmate of rook and king against a lone king."

 

At least you got paid for the time invested.

Avatar of FROG2112

me

Avatar of You_play_well

Oh sure baby, I suck at chess. I just took it up to meet beautiful laydeez.

Avatar of seaque42
IHeartTournaments wrote:

There is always an asian kid better than you!

 

This.

 

Avatar of pfren
IsometricPaste έγραψε:

I learned how to play chess when I was 3...

 

...and now you are 13, and still awful at trolling.