Are chess players athletes? 💨

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not sure how you quantify physical exertion? 

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00421-008-0908-2

PlayByDay
CraigIreland skrev:

From your third link: 

"However, a number of competitive, but non-physical, activities claim recognition as mind sports. The International Olympic Committee (through ARISF) recognises both chess and bridge as bona fide sports, and SportAccord, the international sports federation association, recognises five non-physical sports: bridge, chess, draughts (checkers), Go and xiangqi,[4][5] and limits the number of mind games which can be admitted as sports.[1]"

"The precise definition of what separates a sport from other leisure activities varies between sources. The closest to an international agreement on a definition is provided by SportAccord, which is the association for all the largest international sports federations (including association football, athletics, cycling, tennis, equestrian sports, and more), and is therefore the de facto representative of international sport.

SportAccord uses the following criteria, determining that a sport should:[1]

  • have an element of competition
  • be in no way harmful to any living creature
  • not rely on equipment provided by a single supplier (excluding proprietary games such as arena football)
  • not rely on any "luck" element specifically designed into the sport.

They also recognise that sport can be primarily physical (such as rugby or athletics), primarily mind (such as chess or Go), predominantly motorised (such as Formula 1 or powerboating), primarily co-ordination (such as billiard sports), or primarily animal-supported (such as equestrian sport).[1]"

So it is mostly up for debate even if some people here think that only their definition can be correct and others are willfully wrong.

PlayByDay
KeSetoKaiba skrev:
  1. I will mention that I don't consider chess a sport for the same reason though. For all who consider chess a sport, then I suppose they must also consider chess players athletes for sake of consistency.
  2. Chess is a board game and by this token, it is a "game." Should we consider poker players athletes as this is a card "game"...?
  3. This is basically the "Is chess a sport?" debate posed slightly differently xD

 

  1. Not really, pretty sure some make a difference between a sportsperson and an athlete. At least I wouldn't call dart players, pistol shooters, drag racers and similar people "athletes".
  2. Most, if not every, activities which you think of as sports are in fact physical games of skill. So football, soccer, basket and everything else I can think of are games as well. With poker, the problem is if it is a game of skill or game of chance and how much chance exactly is involved. 
  3. Always have been
Ziryab
CraigIreland wrote:

Cyber-athletes aren't athletes. Seahorses aren't horses. The red panda isn't a panda and buffalo wings certainly aren't made from buffalo.

 

But tomatoes are fruit. Even so, they have no place in fruit salad.

Ziryab
Dmfed wrote:
CraigIreland skrev:

From your third link: 

"However, a number of competitive, but non-physical, activities claim recognition as mind sports. The International Olympic Committee (through ARISF) recognises both chess and bridge as bona fide sports, and SportAccord, the international sports federation association, recognises five non-physical sports: bridge, chess, draughts (checkers), Go and xiangqi,[4][5] and limits the number of mind games which can be admitted as sports.[1]"

"The precise definition of what separates a sport from other leisure activities varies between sources. The closest to an international agreement on a definition is provided by SportAccord, which is the association for all the largest international sports federations (including association football, athletics, cycling, tennis, equestrian sports, and more), and is therefore the de facto representative of international sport.

SportAccord uses the following criteria, determining that a sport should:[1]

  • have an element of competition
  • be in no way harmful to any living creature
  • not rely on equipment provided by a single supplier (excluding proprietary games such as arena football)
  • not rely on any "luck" element specifically designed into the sport.

They also recognise that sport can be primarily physical (such as rugby or athletics), primarily mind (such as chess or Go), predominantly motorised (such as Formula 1 or powerboating), primarily co-ordination (such as billiard sports), or primarily animal-supported (such as equestrian sport).[1]"

So it is mostly up for debate even if some people here think that only their definition can be correct and others are willfully wrong.

 

”In no way harmful to any living creature” excludes hunting and fishing, which are generally considered by many as sports. But hunters are not considered athletes, regardless of how physical their hunt becomes. 

I have friends who consider American football barbaric because of the number of participants who end up with brain injuries. 

chessisNOTez884

its pretty an unnecessary question.. we all know athletes are those that do physical exercise.. and chess is NOT an physical sport.. only mind/brain/mental sport.. unless those who play outdoor games including chess... might be athletes... chess is an sport tho.. not physical.. thats all

chessisNOTez884
Ziryab wrote:
Dmfed wrote:
CraigIreland skrev:

From your third link: 

"However, a number of competitive, but non-physical, activities claim recognition as mind sports. The International Olympic Committee (through ARISF) recognises both chess and bridge as bona fide sports, and SportAccord, the international sports federation association, recognises five non-physical sports: bridge, chess, draughts (checkers), Go and xiangqi,[4][5] and limits the number of mind games which can be admitted as sports.[1]"

"The precise definition of what separates a sport from other leisure activities varies between sources. The closest to an international agreement on a definition is provided by SportAccord, which is the association for all the largest international sports federations (including association football, athletics, cycling, tennis, equestrian sports, and more), and is therefore the de facto representative of international sport.

SportAccord uses the following criteria, determining that a sport should:[1]

  • have an element of competition
  • be in no way harmful to any living creature
  • not rely on equipment provided by a single supplier (excluding proprietary games such as arena football)
  • not rely on any "luck" element specifically designed into the sport.

They also recognise that sport can be primarily physical (such as rugby or athletics), primarily mind (such as chess or Go), predominantly motorised (such as Formula 1 or powerboating), primarily co-ordination (such as billiard sports), or primarily animal-supported (such as equestrian sport).[1]"

So it is mostly up for debate even if some people here think that only their definition can be correct and others are willfully wrong.

 

”In no way harmful to any living creature” excludes hunting and fishing, which are generally considered by many as sports. But hunters are not considered athletes, regardless of how physical their hunt becomes. 

I have friends who consider American football barbaric because of the number of participants who end up with brain injuries. 

i do agree with you Ziryab

chessisNOTez884
Optimissed wrote:

I certaiinly don't consider chess a sport!

you could replace the comment by saying i certainly dont consider chess a physical sport..

chess is an sport mentally.. never take it physically.. overall its an sport anyway

chessisNOTez884
CandyYen-Nguyen2k2 wrote:

Of course. They need brainstorming and it's like using muscles in other sports

as my chess coach sir once told to me.. playing chess is like your brain carrying dumbbells lol xd

chessisNOTez884
CooloutAC wrote:
Ultimate_Wub wrote:
No I wouldn’t consider them athletes, there’s no physical activity really

 

There is lots of physical activity.  let me ask you this,  how many world championship sports events were called off by the organizers and officials because they were afraid one of the athletes was going to die?   Well that has happened in chess my friend.  Kasparov verse Karpov.  Dude spent 3 days in the hospital and almost died.  FIDE controversially ended the competition beforehand. because they were worried about his health.  

     A more recent example is Levy from Gotham Chess going straight to the emergency room after his last game in a tournament over seas not too long ago.   These pro players look just as out of breath as athletes after a match.  Most of them work out like Athletes.   Because the fact is the Mind and the Body are connected and affect each other.    Even us behind the computer are exercising our hand eye coordination which can be considered physical skill.

now this is what all those chess 'haters' or those who dont classify chess as not a sport and something nonsense.. or talk like chess is ONLY sitting.. should see.. this comment of yours says everything sir.. and i really support him.. sure.. chess is NOT AN PHYSICAL sport.. but its an sport?? fools like you would think its only sitting one person used like a s s word lol... i felt laughing on it how idiotic foolish he was.. so yeah let me continue what i was saying... chess is not only sitting.. it requires brain power.. good observation.. good thinking patterns.. its soo stressful and of mental exertion but sure it does not comprise of physical exertion.. still brain is a part of our body right? lol would  you argue for that statement too foolishly? i bet you would i guess lol.. anyway chess IS AN MENTAL SPORT.. but not athletic if we ONLY play chess.

btw fun fact:-all chess players dont sit for twenty fours like gamers:-who sit on their a s s e s lol and ONLY PLAY CHESS being in their home continuously staring at device.. btw have you ever heard about board chess?? its not gadget sooo chess is also not an e sport lol.. so yeah continuing.. most of us do physical sports.. even gamers do so.. but.. remember still chess is classified as sport and video games as e sports.. another foolish kid saying like this that.. if chess is sport..  monopoly tv snake and ladders.. ludo.. all these are sports.. oh boy all these sports need luck.. and chess does not need luck.. it need talent.. talent not all people have as mostly smart people play chess.. still everyone have the capacity but it takes alot of stress especially brain power.. note down this point too.. chess is an mental sport and some of the chess players are athletes.. tbh i could say all of them as remember brain is more important than body.. anyway lets call chess an mental sport and chess players as mental athletes haha

more info:- some people talking nonsense as usual saying chess players are kids.. or talk like chess is overrated.. just one statement to them.. dont take chess like video games lol...

meanwhile some people saying like burning calories is not equal to physical exercise.. what does physical exercise do then?????.. ummm probably unnecessary comment

meanwhile do you really think chess as ONLY STARING? we use brains to think at each position.. what to move when to move etc.. probably you have never played chess seriously lol

chess is also fun.. but is also serious in the other placee

chess players may not be athletes... remember some of them are

but..

chess IS an sport.. mental sport...

why its not there in olympics?? good question btw bro.. yes its not there but there are in certain organisations like fide uscf etc.. meanwhile tournaments.. etc.. there is one rating called like ELO etc.. just to test your strength.. anyway if was rude anywhere.. sorry for it..

no matter how many foolish/false comments you keep on sending on to breakdown this comment

remember you can never breakdown this fact even if by breaking down by comment, winning the argument in this forum lol 

Fact:- CHESS IS AN SPORT.. MENTAL ONE NOT PHYSICAL.. WE CAN SAY MOST OF THE CHESS PLAYERS ARE ATHLETES.. NOT ALL OF THEM THO.. BUT ALL CHESS PLAYERS ARE "MENTAL"/MIND/BRAIN" ATHLETES..

edit- i cant type much this comment says all.. even if you respond to the comment or not i guess this comment says all.. 

PlayByDay
Ziryab skrev:

”In no way harmful to any living creature” excludes hunting and fishing, which are generally considered by many as sports. But hunters are not considered athletes, regardless of how physical their hunt becomes. 

I have friends who consider American football barbaric because of the number of participants who end up with brain injuries. 

Oh, I don't agree with SportAccord (who are now called something else again) definition to 100%, specially the "in no way harmful" since almost all pro-sports are harmful on the athletes. But I am on the fence about both fishing and hunting as sports and prefer their more controlled sport variants, at least sport shooting, so with can remove both the harm and lower the amount of chance.

But that is the thing: we all have our own definition of "sport" and quite often it is good enough to just know what each of us means. Pretty sure I remember same thing with definition of "game" in a game design class couple years ago. Either we kinda agree on that being fuzzy and some general attributes which may or may not be present or we will have problems with either to strict definition excluding activities which are obviously games or to loose which include activities obviously not games.

chessisNOTez884
Dmfed wrote:
Ziryab skrev:

”In no way harmful to any living creature” excludes hunting and fishing, which are generally considered by many as sports. But hunters are not considered athletes, regardless of how physical their hunt becomes. 

I have friends who consider American football barbaric because of the number of participants who end up with brain injuries. 

Oh, I don't agree with SportAccord (who are now called something else again) definition to 100%, specially the "in no way harmful" since almost all pro-sports are harmful on the athletes. But I am on the fence about both fishing and hunting as sports and prefer their more controlled sport variants, at least sport shooting, so with can remove both the harm and lower the amount of chance.

But that is the thing: we all have our own definition of "sport" and quite often it is good enough to just know what each of us means. Pretty sure I remember same thing with definition of "game" in a game design class couple years ago. Either we kinda agree on that being fuzzy and some general attributes which may or may not be present or we will have problems with either to strict definition excluding activities which are obviously games or to loose which include activities obviously not games.

btw hi bro hope you have forgotten all that nonsense topic and nonsense argument

lfPatriotGames
Ziryab wrote:
Dmfed wrote:
CraigIreland skrev:

From your third link: 

"However, a number of competitive, but non-physical, activities claim recognition as mind sports. The International Olympic Committee (through ARISF) recognises both chess and bridge as bona fide sports, and SportAccord, the international sports federation association, recognises five non-physical sports: bridge, chess, draughts (checkers), Go and xiangqi,[4][5] and limits the number of mind games which can be admitted as sports.[1]"

"The precise definition of what separates a sport from other leisure activities varies between sources. The closest to an international agreement on a definition is provided by SportAccord, which is the association for all the largest international sports federations (including association football, athletics, cycling, tennis, equestrian sports, and more), and is therefore the de facto representative of international sport.

SportAccord uses the following criteria, determining that a sport should:[1]

  • have an element of competition
  • be in no way harmful to any living creature
  • not rely on equipment provided by a single supplier (excluding proprietary games such as arena football)
  • not rely on any "luck" element specifically designed into the sport.

They also recognise that sport can be primarily physical (such as rugby or athletics), primarily mind (such as chess or Go), predominantly motorised (such as Formula 1 or powerboating), primarily co-ordination (such as billiard sports), or primarily animal-supported (such as equestrian sport).[1]"

So it is mostly up for debate even if some people here think that only their definition can be correct and others are willfully wrong.

 

”In no way harmful to any living creature” excludes hunting and fishing, which are generally considered by many as sports. But hunters are not considered athletes, regardless of how physical their hunt becomes. 

I have friends who consider American football barbaric because of the number of participants who end up with brain injuries. 

I'm not a hunter, but I have heard stories. One is how a big part of remote hunting is the hiking in and the hiking out. It's a very athletic event. The shooting isn't athletic, but it is a display of skill. So overall considering the physical requirements, and the skill needed, I would say hunting (not fishing though) can be athletic. 

I agree about football, someone always gets hurt. And if this "sportaccord" whatever that is thinks sports should not harm any living creature that would mean boxing and judo and karate and wrestling, etc are not sports. It seems for many sports the whole point is to cause harm to another living creature. 

To me that's a pretty ridiculous definition of sport because sports, by definition, are physical. Which means there is always a high likelihood of injury or harm. It's hard to think of a sport that ISN"T harmful to another living creature. 

lfPatriotGames
CooloutAC wrote:

 

It does though.  In fact chess is the only sport I heard of where a tournament was called off because the players were too exhausted,  besides boxing.

You left out the part where one of them was hospitalized and almost died.  Did you forget that part? Or are you going back on your original speculation?

InsertInterestingNameHere

Being exhausted doesn’t necessarily mean that chess requires physical activity. There are multiple reasons, namely, fatigue. Going long hours without drinking water, eating, or getting sleep (y’know, things that you need to perform basic human functions) can get you hospitalized despite no physical activity being performed.

InsertInterestingNameHere

Physically demanding =/ physical activity.

 

Breathing is physically demanding on your bodily systems to make sure they are in working order in order to survive. But I’m pretty sure breathing is not a physical activity.

CraigIreland

In its literal form this is a question for lexicography. The clear answer is no, but definitions do evolve over time to reflect the general usage of words. It might be that the answer becomes yes in the near future. Anyone who really wants to be on the cutting edge should subscribe to dictionary update newsletters.

CraigIreland

Perhaps it's more fun to just argue about it instead.

lfPatriotGames
InsertInterestingNameHere wrote:

Being exhausted doesn’t necessarily mean that chess requires physical activity. There are multiple reasons, namely, fatigue. Going long hours without drinking water, eating, or getting sleep (y’know, things that you need to perform basic human functions) can get you hospitalized despite no physical activity being performed.

They say just doing nothing, the brain uses a large % of the calories burned to stay alive. I think it's about 25% but I don't remember exactly. And studies show that using the brain for some particular task, like playing chess, barely raises the calorie consumption at all. Which means doing nothing and thinking hard are almost the same thing as far as exertion for the brain. 

I do think that there are other reasons people feel the way they do after a long chess match. It's not that they were thinking hard, it's much of what you said. Dehydration, fatigue, stress, lack of sleep, lack of eating, etc. 

PlayByDay
InsertInterestingNameHere skrev:

Physically demanding =/ physical activity.

 

Breathing is physically demanding on your bodily systems to make sure they are in working order in order to survive. But I’m pretty sure breathing is not a physical activity.

Now I am firmly in the "chess is a non-physical mind sport" group and don't think we need to try to make divorce, math exam and code crunching into athletic or physical activities since most of the time we mean "activities where some of our muscle play a major part to perform"

But technically, isn't breathing exactly that? A muscle activity where your diafragma together with chest muscles work to suck in air into the lungs?! I have no idea how that would be a skill or how we could measure who is better at breathing and not only lung volume but it does sound like a non-sport physical activity.

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