Are lower rated players getting better?

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Avatar of Martin_Stahl
LookUnderTheBoard wrote:

 

1) "It's random with those seeking games the same time"

Yes, I know that. I am saying it shouldn't be that way. You keep typing it as if I don't already know. Saying it 1,000 times doesn't make it right

 

The system in place gives players some say in how they are paired by limiting the range of ratings. Adding even more logic on top of that, to massage the pairings, will create fewer potential matches and likely increase paring waits while the system tries to find some perfect fit.

 

Add to that, one person's idea of a perfect fit won't end up matching another's. 

Avatar of Martin_Stahl
LookUnderTheBoard wrote:

Because if I win, I want to play a higher rated player. I don't care if when I win I get paired with a 26+ player. But why would I want to play higher rated players when I am losing?

 

When you're losing, your rating drops, so the restrictions on rating range will keep you from playing much higher players. If you're on tilt, you'll drop down enough to get to a point where you're more likely to start winning some games again.

 

The same is true when you're winning, your range will include some higher rated players. If you have steaks of wins, you get to where most players will likely be above the rating you started the session with. 

Avatar of Optimissed
Martin_Stahl wrote:
LookUnderTheBoard wrote:

"It's not designed to give opponents on streaks, higher/lowered rated when you won/lost your last game, etc."

And why not? Wouldn't it make more sense to pair a 1350 player after losing to a 1450 with a 1350-1415 player instead of 1500, which is higher rated than the last opponent who won?

 

The more stipulations you add to the pairing algorithm, the harder it will be to find compatible opponents and the longer it takes to pair.

 

The site already gives the ability to restrict the range around your current rating, which can regulate that in a way to keep ratings tightly coupled. If you play well and your rating goes up, the ratings of opponents will still be in your range and the same when it drops.

I set mine to [minus 50 - plus 150] and that gives me a good range, whatever rating I'm playing on at blitz. I think players in the 1500-1700 range are better than they were three months ago. That might be because less people have joined recently and the bad players have gone away.

Starting with blitz again after a layoff where I was concentrating on Daily and other work, I've been pleasantly surprised and have had some very good games. It always takes me a few hundred to get back in the swing and I'm always happy to hold the rating loss at 150 and then build back up again.

Avatar of InsertInterestingNameHere
LookUnderTheBoard wrote:

Because if I win, I want to play a higher rated player. I don't care if when I win I get paired with a 26+ player. But why would I want to play higher rated players when I am losing?

Quite frankly, it doesn’t matter what you want. If you don’t want to face higher rated opponents when losing because you’re on a losing streak, well then, too bad. The current seek limitations are fair.

Avatar of InsertInterestingNameHere

Bold of you to assume I drive 

Avatar of mikeh68

I would say that players in the 1300-1500 range have definitely got better in the last couple of years.........

BUT also there are almost 10 million rapid rated players now, there used to be well under one million. In 2019 a 1300 rating would likely put you in the top 100,000.  I suspect that has more to do with including shorter games in rapid than covid or anything else.

Avatar of Caffeineed

I figured with practice, playing people close to my range, and analyzing my losses, I'd get better. I do not always want to only play people lower (maybe now I do - not that it would matter). I don't have high expectations, just maybe get progressively, slowly, better as I play more. 

The opposite is happening. It seems I was able to get in slightly more wins than losses, so I experienced a very gradual increase in score. Now I am on a negative trajectory, regardless of who I play.

I'll try tightening the matchup parameters. I currently have then set as +/- 100. At this point though, I go into games with a negative mindset, and it usually results in defeat and anger.

I like playing the game, but it is making me increasingly miserable. 

 

Avatar of Romans_5_8_and_8_5

Yes. Most lower rated players will improve in some way. 

Avatar of foobarred1
Martin_Stahl wrote:

Pairings are based on your rating range defaults or what you set in a custom seekand the system pairs you with someone in the random pool that has compatible seek settings. 

 

If you start adding exceptions/rules it increases the amount of time it takes to find a suitable opponent. It's not designed to give opponents on streaks, higher/lowered rated when you won/lost your last game, etc.

Is this different when you play on a mobile device?  I notice that almost all the time,i get pair up with an opponent whose elo is less than mine, sometimes lower than the 150 limit i had set.

Avatar of sndeww
LookUnderTheBoard wrote:
InsertInterestingNameHere wrote:

>@LookUnderTheBoard, imagine blaming chess.com for your losses. If you lose, man up and take it. No chess player has won every match. Stop with the excuses and don’t lie to yourself 

 

My comment has nothing to do with losing exclusively. If you understood my message, it was that we are not getting paired correctly, win or lose. I don't mind losing 3 games, but I don't want to lose 3 games against people 100+ higher than me and then win the 4th against someone who is 50+ below me. I learn nothing from an easy win. I learn nothing from a too difficult opponent. 

 

If you understood my message, you would see I want to be paired closer to my rating.

That’s literally what the rating ranges in the settings are for but ok… if you just wanted to complain, go ahead

Avatar of Martin_Stahl
foobarred1 wrote:

Is this different when you play on a mobile device?  I notice that almost all the time,i get pair up with an opponent whose elo is less than mine, sometimes lower than the 150 limit i had set.

 

If you set a custom seek in the app, it should try pairing you in your chosen range, since it's the same live server process doing the pairings as far as I'm aware.

Avatar of LawsonLaird
Bahahha sounds right
Avatar of technical_knockout

better players are getting lower rated.

Avatar of llama51

Avatar of Martin_Stahl
LookUnderTheBoard wrote:

"Adding even more logic on top of that, to massage the pairings, will create fewer potential matches and likely increase paring waits while the system tries to find some perfect fit."

And you are sounding like a broken record. Do you realize I don't care about waiting patiently for a pairing that I desire? Do you think if I get a pairing I prefer I might invest some money into the service so it can stay like that? Do you think repeating what I already know will make me fund the current pairing system which I don't like?

 

If I am willing to wait 5 minutes for a pairing I like, that is my prerogative. Why not let the player decide? Me willing to wait doesn't prevent someone else from getting a quicker pairing according to their preferences.

 

In fact, if I don't start a seek, then I am not in the pool to get paired up. 

 

Another aspect is, I challenge this idea that you will wait longer. Even if you had 8 people out of 10 who wanted to play as fast as possible, there are the 2 who don't and they could play rematches.

 

You may not but a lot of other players would be upset if they had longer waits to get paired. There are a lot of competing interests and the site can't meet them all. Some players are going to be playing events, some only certain pools, and some in the random pool. That latter pool already has some restrictions when it comes to rating ranges, and creating more sub pools does not seem like it will improve things.

 

You can always make a suggestion to the site to add and optional pairing method, but I'm going to guess it's unlikely to happen. You can do that under HelpMake a Suggestion

Avatar of Holden6

i thin yes

 

Avatar of Holden6

think*

 

Avatar of sndeww
LookUnderTheBoard wrote:
B1ZMARK wrote:
LookUnderTheBoard wrote:
InsertInterestingNameHere wrote:

>@LookUnderTheBoard, imagine blaming chess.com for your losses. If you lose, man up and take it. No chess player has won every match. Stop with the excuses and don’t lie to yourself 

 

My comment has nothing to do with losing exclusively. If you understood my message, it was that we are not getting paired correctly, win or lose. I don't mind losing 3 games, but I don't want to lose 3 games against people 100+ higher than me and then win the 4th against someone who is 50+ below me. I learn nothing from an easy win. I learn nothing from a too difficult opponent. 

 

If you understood my message, you would see I want to be paired closer to my rating.

That’s literally what the rating ranges in the settings are for but ok… if you just wanted to complain, go ahead

 

Rating ranges don't pair you up with lower rated by formula, and as stated by others it is random. So, no, it is not literally what the rating ranges in the settings are for.

If you are on a losing streak just turn the rating cap down, and you will be paired up with lower rated people. 

Avatar of DarkMist994
Caffeineed wrote:

...or am I just getting worse? (I think I know the answer).

I've lost 8 of my last 11 games against higher and lower rated players in my range, and two of the "wins" were abandonments (neither of which was because I was in a winning position). So  I'm really about 1 for 11.

In the past month, I've dropped 100 points, which is significant, when I started at my high of 625. I wonder if I'm just overthinking, and making dumb moves, putting me in losing situations. It's super frustrating.

Yes, I review my games. Yes I check for blunders. I know , "wah, wah".  Go ahead. Tell me I'm a big baby.

I just feel like everyone at my level has suddenly gotten much better. I'm probably just in denial of my suckiness. 

Not really at your range of rating. Anyone below 1500 (which includes me) loses mostly because of hanging pieces or making serious tactical mistakes.

Avatar of z7q2

heyyy