Are you supposed to remove the piece before you take it or push it off the square as you take it?

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EndgameEnthusiast2357

Only HUMANS analyze stuff like this like it's important.

EndgameEnthusiast2357
Brendan_UK wrote:

From https://www.fide.com/component/handbook/?id=208&view=article (Thanks Covfefito for the up to date link (Jan 2018) ).

 

Article 4: The act of moving the pieces:

 

4.1  Each move must be played with one hand only.

 

4.2.1  Only the player having the move may adjust one or more pieces on their squares, provided that he first expresses his intention (for example by saying “j’adoube” or “I adjust”).

 

4.2.2  Any other physical contact with a piece, except for clearly accidental contact, shall be considered to be intent.

 

4.3  Except as provided in Article 4.2, if the player having the move touches on the chessboard, with the intention of moving or capturing:

 

4.3.1  one or more of his own pieces, he must move the first piece touched that can be moved.

 

4.3.2  one or more of his opponent’s pieces, he must capture the first piece touched that can be captured.

 

4.3.3  one or more pieces of each colour, he must capture the first touched opponent’s piece with his first touched piece or, if this is illegal, move or capture the first piece touched that can be moved or captured.

If it is unclear whether the player’s own piece or his opponent’s was touched first, the player’s own piece shall be considered to have been touched before his opponent’s.

 

4.4  If a player having the move:

 

4.4.1  touches his king and a rook he must castle on that side if it is legal to do so.

 

4.4.2  deliberately touches a rook and then his king he is not allowed to castle on that side on that move and the situation shall be governed by Article 4.3.1

 

4.4.3  intending to castle, touches the king and then a rook, but castling with this rook is illegal, the player must make another legal move with his king (which may include castling with the other rook).

If the king has no legal move, the player is free to make any legal move.

 

4.4.4  promotes a pawn, the choice of the piece is finalised when the piece has touched the square of promotion.

 

4.5  If none of the pieces touched in accordance with Article 4.3 or Article 4.4 can be moved or captured, the player may make any legal move.

 

4.6  The act of promotion may be performed in various ways:

 

4.6.1  the pawn does not have to be placed on the square of arrival,

 

4.6.2  removing the pawn and putting the new piece on the square of promotion may occur in any order.

 

4.6.3  If an opponent’s piece stands on the square of promotion, it must be captured.

 

4.7  When, as a legal move or part of a legal move, a piece has been released on a square, it cannot be moved to another square on this move. The move is considered to have been made in the case of:

 

4.7.1  a capture, when the captured piece has been removed from the chessboard and the player, having placed his own piece on its new square, has released this capturing piece from his hand,

 

4.7.2  castling, when the player's hand has released the rook on the square previously crossed by the king. When the player has released the king from his hand, the move is not yet made, but the player no longer has the right to make any move other than castling on that side, if this is legal. If castling on this side is illegal, the player must make another legal move with his king (which may include castling with the other rook). If the king has no legal move, the player is free to make any legal move.

 

4.7.3  promotion, when the player's hand has released the new piece on the square of promotion and the pawn has been removed from the board.

 

4.8  A player forfeits his right to claim against his opponent’s violation of Articles 4.1 – 4.7 once the player touches a piece with the intention of moving or capturing it.

 

4.9  If a player is unable to move the pieces, an assistant, who shall be acceptable to the arbiter, may be provided by the player to perform this operation.

 

Can't believe there are 15 rules on the proper way to freaking pick up a piece in a board game. Just plat the dam game and stop worrying about the millisecond time differences!

Yenny-Leon
EndgameStudier wrote:

Can't believe there are 15 rules on the proper way to freaking pick up a piece in a board game. Just plat the dam game and stop worrying about the millisecond time differences!

 

These rules listed above are for rated tournament games, where the specificity is needed so that TDs can effectively (and quickly) deal with whatever disputes arise.  In casual chess you can get away with ignoring some of these.

EndgameEnthusiast2357

Even in tournament, it's just a waste of time. Having to make sure I touch the same piece with the same finger..etc. People should be concentrating on the game, not what angle and velocity I put the piece down.

Yenny-Leon
EndgameStudier wrote:

Even in tournament, it's just a waste of time. Having to make sure I touch the same piece with the same finger..etc. People should be concentrating on the game, not what angle and velocity I put the piece down.

 

How do you feel about your opponent moving a piece with one hand, while simultaneously hitting the clock with the other hand?  (and if that's okay with you, then what if they hit the clock before finishing the move?)

chessspy1

I think the rules state that the clock must be pressed with the hand that moves the piece

EndgameEnthusiast2357
Entheon wrote:
EndgameStudier wrote:

Even in tournament, it's just a waste of time. Having to make sure I touch the same piece with the same finger..etc. People should be concentrating on the game, not what angle and velocity I put the piece down.

 

How do you feel about your opponent moving a piece with one hand, while simultaneously hitting the clock with the other hand?  (and if that's okay with you, then what if they hit the clock before finishing the move?)

I don't really care. It's a difference of half a second, and as long as he hits the clock AFTER making the move it doesn't have to be with the same hand, I would see that if he tried to cheat like that obviosuly

Yenny-Leon
EndgameStudier wrote:

... as long as he hits the clock AFTER making the move it doesn't have to be with the same hand ...

 

I've run some childrens' rated tournaments, and the kids who used both hands simultaneously to move (one to move, one to hit clock) tended to degenerate into a situation where the kid is doing both at the same instant (which already breaks the rules).

 

Then it starts to look like he's hitting the clock first, shrewdly keeping his clock-hand on the clock continuously!  This causes chaos since the legality of the move becomes increasingly doubtful.  Allowing such disturbance and  distractions to the players (including on adjoining boards) is less preferable than asking players to simply use one hand.

EndgameEnthusiast2357

So you just say to let go of the piece and then hit the clock. Not complicated.

Yenny-Leon
EndgameStudier wrote:

So you just say to let go of the piece and then hit the clock. Not complicated.

 

Let go of what piece? It's already on the board.  And now your clock is ticking, and your opponent just cheated.  Your turn.  Not complicated.

EndgameEnthusiast2357

Oh my god, you move the piece, let go of it, then hit the clock. Doesn't matter what hand you do each with.

Yenny-Leon
EndgameStudier wrote:

Oh my god, you move the piece, let go of it, then hit the clock. Doesn't matter what hand you do each with.

 

The point is that the move must be completed (complete release of hand from piece) BEFORE the clock is hit, as you already agreed.

 

And the two-handed approach makes it very difficult for the opponent, TD, spectators to see if the "BEFORE" rule is being followed or not (especially if I rest a hand on my clock button continuously).  That's all.  They made the rules just so TDs wouldn't need to intervene 10 times a round because players are arguing about clock abuse.

 

If you've ever witnessed a time-pressure scramble in actual rated tournament (where $ and norms are at stake), then you might understand why letting players steal time is against the rules.  If you don't like USCF rules, then don't play in their rated tournaments.  You might not object to the two-handed time-swindlers stealing fractions of a second on every move, but most opponents would.

EndgameEnthusiast2357

It's OCD. Just try to make it clear that you make the move before hitting the clock and thats fine. Players shouldn't have to constantly keep track of their hand movements. Distracts from the actual game

Yenny-Leon
EndgameStudier wrote:

Players shouldn't have to constantly keep track of their hand movements. Distracts from the actual game

 

You're correct -- players shouldn't have to.  The best and easiest way to minimize all clock-related distractions is to use only one hand at at time.  This prevents any possibility of the time-stealing that's under discussion, and thus lessens the players' worries.

EndgameEnthusiast2357

True, use one hand for the whole game to get in the habit.

EndgameEnthusiast2357

What If I place a piece and then knock it over by accident? Can I hit the clock before straightening it? What if I have 4 seconds left and I drop the queen I just intended to promote?

Bad_Dobby_Fischer
[COMMENT DELETED]
pfren
EndgameStudier έγραψε:

Oh my god, you move the piece, let go of it, then hit the clock. Doesn't matter what hand you do each with.

Oh my God, you are wrong.

From Fide Rules of Chess:

6.2.3 A player must press his clock with the same hand with which he made his move. It is forbidden for a player to keep his finger on the clock or to ‘hover’ over it.

EndgameEnthusiast2357

YES SIR (Salutes)

Yenny-Leon
EndgameStudier wrote:

What If I place a piece and then knock it over by accident? Can I hit the clock before straightening it? What if I have 4 seconds left and I drop the queen I just intended to promote?

 

Yes, you're supposed to straighten out (upright) the piece so that everyone can see exactly which square it's on.  It doesn't need to be perfectly centered on the square, as long as most of the piece is on the intended square.  Your opponent can then adjust it on their turn (of course after first whispering "adjust").

 

The rules allow you to stop the clock to find a queen (from another finished board) when you promote a pawn.  We can no longer use an upside-down rook or pawn to represent the new queen.  A player can stop the clock for this reason; you don't need to find a TD first.  When in doubt about some odd occurrence, shenanigans, or confusion, stop the clock, then get the TD.  Don't argue with your opponent -- it's distracting to many surrounding boards.  [for general consumption, not aimed at you personally EndgameStudier]