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Backgammon versus Chess

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KeithAW
My Turkish barber insists that backgammon is much more challenging than chess
He said backgammon was much more popular in Turkey than chess apparently they play it in nearly all of the tea shops there !
ATJ1968

I love backgammon too, though don't really understand the bidding part. I like to play on zooescape.com under my nickname of ATJ1968

playallthechess
[COMMENT DELETED]
premio53

Backgammon is a much faster paced game with more ups and downs compared to chess.  Some chess masters have given up chess for backgammon because they got tired of having to memorize hundreds of openings necessary to compete at the higher levels.

I used to play in a lot of chess tournaments but now play backgammon almost exclusively.  Even though there is memorization when it comes to probability and strategy it is nothing compared to chess and one can become fairly proficient at backgammon even as age creeps up on you.

One last point.  Though the best backgammon programs are better than world class players (not by a wide margin like chess), humans can still manage to win matches against the machine though not very often.

premio53
grinrock wrote:
There is far more luck involved in backgammon. Though it is a fun and ofttimes contentious game!

The longer the match the less luck is involved.  That is why championship matches play to 21.  Without the cube I agree that backgammon is mostly luck.

TheAuthority

Apples and oranges

KeithAW
Interesting....what is the best way to start playing the game ?
premio53
KeithAW wrote:
Interesting....what is the best way to start playing the game ?

I believe the best book for someone starting out is "Backgammon for Blood" by Chris Bray.  Then find a site online that you like and start playing.

Melanoxylon

Another excellent and classic book to start is Paul Magriel's "Backgammon" 

https://www.amazon.com/Backgammon-Paul-Magriel/dp/1593860277/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=

Considered by many as the Backgammon "bible" and is really worth the money IMHO

ThrillerFan
chesspunk04 wrote:

I love backgammon too, though don't really understand the bidding part. I like to play on zooescape.com under my nickname of ATJ1968

There is no "bidding" in Backgammon.  There is a doubling cube, which is used when you are not playing isolated games, but rather are playing either to a certain score, or if you are playing for money.

The way it works is, at the start, the cube is off the board.  The doubling cube has 6 sides, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, and 64.  If you are playing for points or for money, here's how it works.  Let's use a $1 bet as the basis for this per game.

Either player, if they feel like they have a great enough advantage to win, whether it be way ahead in total pips, a number of opponent's chips far back, or some other reason (I wouldn't say playing the "back game" is the time to double), that player can set the Doubling cube at 2.  He must do it before he rolls.

The opponent then has an option.  Surrender $1 and give up, or accept the double, at which point the doubler rolls.  The opponent of the doubler possesses the doubling cube.  ONLY HE can double to 4 at any point in the game.

A few moves later, he captures two of his opponents chips and fills in another slot in his home with double 6's.  Only way in is a 2 with 2 chips on the bar for the opponent.  He fails to roll a 2.  The guy now doubles to 4.  Opponent has a choice.  Surrender $2 (the previous doubling cube value) or play on.  If he plays on, doubler rolls, and the guy that accepted the double to 4 possesses the doubling cube and ONLY HE can double to 8 at any time.

The doubling cube can never go past 64, and always alternates between the players.  Declining a double means you surrender the previous double value.  You decline the 32 double means you surrender $16 (or 16 points in a points game).

When the game ends, the person that bares off all of his chips wins.  How much he wins depends on 3 things:

1) The amount of the bet.  In this case, it's $1

2) The doubling cube.  Let's say in this game, it's at 4

3) The opponent's situation with his chips.

The board has 24 pips.  The last 6 that you have to get them to on your side in order to start baring off is called your home.  You start with 5 chips on  your home 6-column.  Your opponent's home is the 6 pips on the opposide side.

REGULAR WIN:  If you bare off all 15 chips, and your opponent has bared off at least 1 chip, even if he has one captured after that and is on the bar and can't bare off any more until that chip gets back around, you score a regular win, and you multiply the bet by the doubling cube, which would be $4 in this case.  Your opponent must pay you 4 dollars.

GAMMON:  If you bare off all 15 chips, and your opponent has failed to bare off a single chip, BUT, he has no chips in your home, which are the back 6 pips from his perspective, you score what is called a GAMMON, and you get double the points or dollars, so in this example, $1 * 4 Doubling Cube * 2 Gammon is $8 that you win.

BACKGAMMON:  If you bare off all 15 chips, and your opponent has failed to bare off a single chip, AND he has at least 1 chip in YOUR HOME, it's scored a BACKGAMMON, and awards triple that of the doubling cube, so in this example, $1 * 4 Doubling Cube * 3 Backgammon is $12 that you win (or 12 points in tournament mode.)

Dodger111

Difference is you can be a great backgammon player but if the dice are running against you it won't help. Same with bridge, definitely a game of skill but get a bad run of cards and you're dead no matter how good you are. 

ATJ1968

ThrillerFan wrote:

chesspunk04 wrote:

I love backgammon too, though don't really understand the bidding part. I like to play on zooescape.com under my nickname of ATJ1968

There is no "bidding" in Backgammon.  There is a doubling cube, which is used when you are not playing isolated games, but rather are playing either to a certain score, or if you are playing for money.

The way it works is, at the start, the cube is off the board.  The doubling cube has 6 sides, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, and 64.  If you are playing for points or for money, here's how it works.  Let's use a $1 bet as the basis for this per game.

Either player, if they feel like they have a great enough advantage to win, whether it be way ahead in total pips, a number of opponent's chips far back, or some other reason (I wouldn't say playing the "back game" is the time to double), that player can set the Doubling cube at 2.  He must do it before he rolls.

The opponent then has an option.  Surrender $1 and give up, or accept the double, at which point the doubler rolls.  The opponent of the doubler possesses the doubling cube.  ONLY HE can double to 4 at any point in the game.

A few moves later, he captures two of his opponents chips and fills in another slot in his home with double 6's.  Only way in is a 2 with 2 chips on the bar for the opponent.  He fails to roll a 2.  The guy now doubles to 4.  Opponent has a choice.  Surrender $2 (the previous doubling cube value) or play on.  If he plays on, doubler rolls, and the guy that accepted the double to 4 possesses the doubling cube and ONLY HE can double to 8 at any time.

The doubling cube can never go past 64, and always alternates between the players.  Declining a double means you surrender the previous double value.  You decline the 32 double means you surrender $16 (or 16 points in a points game).

When the game ends, the person that bares off all of his chips wins.  How much he wins depends on 3 things:

1) The amount of the bet.  In this case, it's $1

2) The doubling cube.  Let's say in this game, it's at 4

3) The opponent's situation with his chips.

The board has 24 pips.  The last 6 that you have to get them to on your side in order to start baring off is called your home.  You start with 5 chips on  your home 6-column.  Your opponent's home is the 6 pips on the opposide side.

REGULAR WIN:  If you bare off all 15 chips, and your opponent has bared off at least 1 chip, even if he has one captured after that and is on the bar and can't bare off any more until that chip gets back around, you score a regular win, and you multiply the bet by the doubling cube, which would be $4 in this case.  Your opponent must pay you 4 dollars.

GAMMON:  If you bare off all 15 chips, and your opponent has failed to bare off a single chip, BUT, he has no chips in your home, which are the back 6 pips from his perspective, you score what is called a GAMMON, and you get double the points or dollars, so in this example, $1 * 4 Doubling Cube * 2 Gammon is $8 that you win.

BACKGAMMON:  If you bare off all 15 chips, and your opponent has failed to bare off a single chip, AND he has at least 1 chip in YOUR HOME, it's scored a BACKGAMMON, and awards triple that of the doubling cube, so in this example, $1 * 4 Doubling Cube * 3 Backgammon is $12 that you win (or 12 points in tournament mode.)

Yep sorry. Bridge is bidding. Got mixed up.

Saint_Anne

I prefer backgammon to chess.  But, in general, backgammon attracts gamblers while chess attracts searchers for truth.

premio53

There was a court case in 1982 where the vice squad arrested Ted Bar for running a backgammon tournament.  Former world champion Paul Magriel testified in that case and it was decided that backgammon is a game of skill and not a crap shoot.  The same ruling was found in 1976 in Alabama.  Ed Collins wrote an article on it.

http://www.edcollins.com/backgammon/backgamb.htm

DrFrank124c

Backgammon is a fun game but I prefer chess!

KeithAW
Many thanks for your suggestions I think I will have to either give backgammon a try or change my barber.
premio53
pfren wrote:

Luck is involved in competitive backgammon much more than bridge (where there is no luck at all), but still it's a long way from being labelled as a game of luck.

There is as much skill involved in backgammon as there is in bridge.